PPs and Es pools

All about freshwater & saltwater - dechlorinators, salt, water bowls, and pool construction & maintenance.
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PPs and Es pools

Post by ciaraalston » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:46 am

Hey y'all!
I see so many with these awesome pools for their crabitats. I'm so jelly!
I just have access to PPs and Es, and I barely ever see them in the water. Of course the pools get dirty, but I've actually never seen them fully submerge. Is it worth me going all out for cool pools with a filter and such, or is it a waste? Do they really even use them? I've heard some exotics love swimming, but do the PPs and Es?
Let me know!

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Re: PPs and Es pools

Post by RiNiKy506 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:31 am

There is a presentation that the cholla queen did on this. It does make a difference in having the bioactive water pools, once the water cycles they have noticed increased swimming activity. I have been looking into this myself bc I just having boring swimming pools for my crabby crew. Is it ok to posts link to her presentation on here? I don’t want to post if it’s not allowed.

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Re: PPs and Es pools

Post by ciaraalston » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:46 am

Same here, I've got Tupperware bowls that are so boring. I'd love to utilize the space I have in this 80 to the best crabitat I can, so I was thinking of using critter keepers as pools....
Please send the link! :)

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Re: PPs and Es pools

Post by Motörcrab » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:21 am

Check out Cholla Queens presentation from crab con. I had links posted to it in a few topics.

It really made me rethink my pool set up. It goes into how she saw the crabs tip toeing at the waters edge but not really going in. After experimenting she went bioactive with her water and saw a huge increase in activity. She even has videos of them in the water. She also noted seeing some crabs spending up to 10-12 hours sumberged.

It really got me thinking about my water set up. I believe water is overlooked for the most part. Everyone preaches, heat, humidity, and substrate parameters. Water must be dechlorinated, deep enough to submerge, and must be fresh and salt.

For the most part the pools are out of need and are usually an afterthought of the tank design. Think about it on a hot day would you jump into a plastic kiddie pool in your backyard, or rather spend your time at a water park with more activities?
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Re: PPs and Es pools

Post by ciaraalston » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:41 am

Motörcrab wrote:Check out Cholla Queens presentation from crab con. I had links posted to it in a few topics.

It really made me rethink my pool set up. It goes into how she saw the crabs tip toeing at the waters edge but not really going in. After experimenting she went bioactive with her water and saw a huge increase in activity. She even has videos of them in the water. She also noted seeing some crabs spending up to 10-12 hours sumberged.

It really got me thinking about my water set up. I believe water is overlooked for the most part. Everyone preaches, heat, humidity, and substrate parameters. Water must be dechlorinated, deep enough to submerge, and must be fresh and salt.

For the most part the pools are out of need and are usually an afterthought of the tank design. Think about it on a hot day would you jump into a plastic kiddie pool in your backyard, or rather spend your time at a water park with more activities?
It's the same video you posted in your thread, okay! I wasn't sure.
I've been meaning to watch it, I guess right now is a great time!!!!
I'll let you know my thoughts when I finish the video :)

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Re: PPs and Es pools

Post by ciaraalston » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:21 pm

Motörcrab wrote:Check out Cholla Queens presentation from crab con. I had links posted to it in a few topics.

It really made me rethink my pool set up. It goes into how she saw the crabs tip toeing at the waters edge but not really going in. After experimenting she went bioactive with her water and saw a huge increase in activity. She even has videos of them in the water. She also noted seeing some crabs spending up to 10-12 hours sumberged.

It really got me thinking about my water set up. I believe water is overlooked for the most part. Everyone preaches, heat, humidity, and substrate parameters. Water must be dechlorinated, deep enough to submerge, and must be fresh and salt.

For the most part the pools are out of need and are usually an afterthought of the tank design. Think about it on a hot day would you jump into a plastic kiddie pool in your backyard, or rather spend your time at a water park with more activities?
So, I watched the video.
Of course, I didn't quite understand all the terms and explanations during the water quality portion, but I have my boyfriend watching it now because he's the aquarium expert in the house and he can better understand what's going on. I screenshot some of the slides though so I can go back and refer to them.
The video was extremely informative!!!! She covered so much that we needed, and I'm amazed that she has been experimenting all of this for over a year!

How are your pools doing since you've added them? Are you seeing an increase in activity? Have you had to do any water changes? What are you using to test the water?

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Re: PPs and Es pools

Post by Motörcrab » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:30 pm

So far I only did the saltwater pool. I have yet to see any crabs venture into the saltwater including the strawberries. I thought the straws would be in right away. I have seen a few on the upper landing above the water but none ventured any further.

I still didn't do a water change although I added several cups of water yesterday to bring the height up. I'm currently using strips to test the levels in the water. Dip, wait 30 seconds and check the colors based on the levels. I also have an in tank ammonia gauge. The center changes color based on the ammonia. I believe the strips and ammonia gauge we're around $25-30.

I was waiting to see activity before I started cycling. I think I'm going to possibly start that tonight since I read it takes about two weeks to complete. Maybe then I will see more activity?

They basic cycling is add food, poop, or anything else that will break down and release ammonia. Once the ammonia level spikes Nitrites will form to take care of the ammonia. The ammonia will decrease and Nitrites will spike. Then Nitrates form and breakdown the Nitrites. Once there are zero ammonia and Nitrites the tank is cycles. Once the tank is cycled it should be, or at least I'm hoping, testing the water every few days, partial water changes as required and filter changes as required.

I'm hoping partial water changes will be every two weeks and filters changed monthly. That will depend on the crabs though.

In another group someone mentioned my ramps may be too steep for. I rearranged them last night and made a level about an inch under water to try and entice them. I think it is going to require more tweaking to perfect the pool before I see a lot of activity.ImageImageImageImageImage



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Re: PPs and Es pools

Post by aussieJJDude » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:05 am

It takes a while for my land hermies to get use to them. Mine took a few months to get use to the saltwater, but now I regularly see my crabs around the edge, dipped in and fully submerged walking around.

In fact, when I dont see my crabs submerging I know that it's a sign they want a waterchange (fresh water, which I assume nitrates have built up... I've dont check mine!)

I did follow most of the advice from Sweetp (and well and nano tank forums) and have good success.
http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/ph ... p?t=100702

Edit: heads up, ammonium chloride is probably one of the best ways to cycle a body of water. Unlike poo and rotting food (like shrimp, fish food or anything of the like) ammonium chloride is very precise so you know exactly if its cycled or not (and how far along the cycle).

Unlike an aquarium, the water pools will never experience a lot of waste, so you can easily cycle with the crabs. Dose to 1ppm (which for most sized pools, less than a couple of drops would be *more* than sufficient. With 1ppm, you can still 'technically' dose with prime, to keep it 'safe to drink' (its ammonium, so its technically already safe, but still useful for nitrite once the first set of converting bacteria has established)...

A small bottle will easily last you for ages, and give you the flexibility of establishing both pools (and even a couple of aquariums, without using established media).

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Re: PPs and Es pools

Post by Motörcrab » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:56 am

aussieJJDude wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:05 am
It takes a while for my land hermies to get use to them. Mine took a few months to get use to the saltwater, but now I regularly see my crabs around the edge, dipped in and fully submerged walking around.

In fact, when I dont see my crabs submerging I know that it's a sign they want a waterchange (fresh water, which I assume nitrates have built up... I've dont check mine!)

I did follow most of the advice from Sweetp (and well and nano tank forums) and have good success.
http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/ph ... p?t=100702

Edit: heads up, ammonium chloride is probably one of the best ways to cycle a body of water. Unlike poo and rotting food (like shrimp, fish food or anything of the like) ammonium chloride is very precise so you know exactly if its cycled or not (and how far along the cycle).

Unlike an aquarium, the water pools will never experience a lot of waste, so you can easily cycle with the crabs. Dose to 1ppm (which for most sized pools, less than a couple of drops would be *more* than sufficient. With 1ppm, you can still 'technically' dose with prime, to keep it 'safe to drink' (its ammonium, so its technically already safe, but still useful for nitrite once the first set of converting bacteria has established)...

A small bottle will easily last you for ages, and give you the flexibility of establishing both pools (and even a couple of aquariums, without using established media).

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That was a great topic. There is so much info on here it is sometime difficult to find it all even with searching!
I feel as if my pool is very similar as Sweetp recommended. I do not have argonate sand or protein skimmer though. My water temperature is right around 75-77 (25C or just under)

I searched my local pet shop for ammonium chloride but they didn't have any. I did find API's Quick Start mix and added that last night. It said 4 drops per quart/liter for fresh, double the dose for saltwater. The math I came up with:
5 drops per quart X 2 for salt= 10 drops per quart.
4 quarts make a gallon 10 drops X 4= 40 drops per gallon
80 drops for 2 gallons. I have a 2.5 gallon tank that is not quite to the top so I used 85 drops total.

I tested the water last night before adding the Quick Start. these are the reading I pulled.
Nitrate 80
Nitrite 5
KH 300
PH 7.8
Ammonia .02

This morning I checked it again about 15 hours after adding the Quick Start.
Nitrate 80
Nitrite 10
KH 180
PH 7.8
Ammonia .03

If this Safe Start doesn't work I will just order dome ammonium chloride online and give that a go.

I really need to invest in better test kit. I believe the strips work but still have a lot of variance on colors of the strip vs what you base your readings off.

I will check the levels again tomorrow to see if things if things balance out a bit more. If not I believe I will do a partial water change.

I have noticed my crabs sitting on the top level of the pool. It looks af if they sit there and claw the ground and put it toward their mouth to get saltwater. I'm thinking they may still be a little unsure with the ramps. At least I know they are comfortable with the pool being in the tank and should be aware of the saltwater. I believe I may add some plastic plants along the ramps to give them more to grip.

Thanks again for all the help!
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Re: PPs and Es pools

Post by GotButterflies » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:55 pm

My Es go all the way in the MSW. :) I just have bubblers in my pools though. No real filtered pools. I might try it again. We will see! I did watch Courtney's presentation. :)
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Re: PPs and Es pools

Post by Motörcrab » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:38 pm

Well here's an update on my saltwater pool. About two weeks ago I caught two straws releasing zoea/eggs. The male was holding the female so they could easily float up and out of her shell.

I changed out the filter fiber for the first time and did a 90% water change. I have been keeping a log of my water readings using the strips. When the nitrate and nitrite levels get high I do a 50% water change. Scoop out a few quarts and add new. I really think once it's up and running it cuts back on the cleaning and changing water every few days.

I think one of the biggest things for them to swim is having proper ramps. The easier it is for them to grip, climb and feel secure, the higher the chance they will venture into the pool.

In all I have around $100 invested with buying a 2.5 gallon tank, filter, filter floss, charcoal, tubing, stones, T's in line valves, egg crate, silicone, stones, test strips, thermometer and whatever else. In the next few weeks I'm planning to start my freshwater pool.
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Re: PPs and Es pools

Post by ciaraalston » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:01 am

So, I have the kritter keeper that I brought sebastian home in a few years ago. I was using it as a small beta tank, but we upgraded him to a 10. Would it be okay to use for a filtered pool? Do yall think it would hold up?? I'm still working out details of making a ramp.....I'm going to use some of the egg crate diffuser I have left over to make a ledge and ramp, probably wrap it with vines and leaves. Should I layer the outside walls with stones? I'm worried that would be too heavy and crack the plastic.
I have an 80 gal bowfront, I'm sure I could fit 2 of the 2.5 gallon tanks inside for filtered pools. I'd have to rearrange some stuff, but it would actually make my tank more crowded and give them more hiding areas so it would be better anyway.

Let me know your thoughts! I plan on running the pool out of the tank for a few weeks to get it cycled and get levels stable, so it will be a while before the crabs get to see any of the work!

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Re: PPs and Es pools

Post by Motörcrab » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:31 am

I think a critter keeper can work. I siliconed egg crate to the back of my glass tank to allow them to climb to it. I also use cork and Cholla for them to climb to reach the top as well. I have seen them climb the egg crate but not as much as the cork and Cholla.

With the lip on the top of the tank the top level sits in that to keep it in place. With the critter keeper you may need to get a little creative to secure the ledge.

The rocks on the inside I did for appearance. I haven't seen them climbing on them much. Maybe to get to the first level that is an inch or so below the water.

My biggest issue I have is my corner filter wanting to float to the surface. At some point I plan to silicone some rocks to the bottom of it to weight it down.

Once it's built and the silicone is dry I would add it to the tank and cycle it in place. AussieJJDude helped me out on this one. The nitrates and nitrites will build up over time no matter what. The "good" bacteria will build up in the filter and on rocks and in the water. Once your levels start to get high do a 50% or more water change. It won't hurt the cycling. As Aussie explained to me not doing the water changes can stall the process. At first I was under the impression it is the water that needs to correct itself. The cycling is basically the entire tank balancing to a normal level.

You will probably find AussieDudes and my conversation useful on my Crabmas in July thread. He helped me understand alot with the cycling and water in general!ImageImageImageImage

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Re: PPs and Es pools

Post by ciaraalston » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:34 am

Motörcrab wrote:I think a critter keeper can work. I siliconed egg crate to the back of my glass tank to allow them to climb to it. I also use cork and Cholla for them to climb to reach the top as well. I have seen them climb the egg crate but not as much as the cork and Cholla.

With the lip on the top of the tank the top level sits in that to keep it in place. With the critter keeper you may need to get a little creative to secure the ledge.

The rocks on the inside I did for appearance. I haven't seen them climbing on them much. Maybe to get to the first level that is an inch or so below the water.

My biggest issue I have is my corner filter wanting to float to the surface. At some point I plan to silicone some rocks to the bottom of it to weight it down.

Once it's built and the silicone is dry I would add it to the tank and cycle it in place. AussieJJDude helped me out on this one. The nitrates and nitrites will build up over time no matter what. The "good" bacteria will build up in the filter and on rocks and in the water. Once your levels start to get high do a 50% or more water change. It won't hurt the cycling. As Aussie explained to me not doing the water changes can stall the process. At first I was under the impression it is the water that needs to correct itself. The cycling is basically the entire tank balancing to a normal level.

You will probably find AussieDudes and my conversation useful on my Crabmas in July thread. He helped me understand alot with the cycling and water in general!ImageImageImageImage

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Oh yes, I've been reading that post! I kinda get lost a little, but my boyfriend knows all about the water cycle and things because of his aquariums so he will know how to translate the posts! I've really enjoyed your threads, they're ALWAYS so educational and thorough. I cant wait to get this in the works! We go on a small "vacation" next week, and I've got TWO baby showers to throw in the next 2 months so on top of work, I'll be busy. ImageImage
it will be a while before I start putting it together! I'm itching to get it done though!

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Re: PPs and Es pools

Post by aussieJJDude » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:37 pm

The only thing to keep in mind, some members in the 0ast has had issues with KKs breaking, since the plastic isnt of best quality. They reccomended doubling them up so if it does crack, the bottom container should catch much of the water. :)

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