Unresponsive 4 days, ate one day, lifeless past 48 hrs

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hprmom
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Unresponsive 4 days, ate one day, lifeless past 48 hrs

Post by hprmom » Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:48 pm

Trying to determine if Hermie is dead or not. We are new to hermit crabs and he has only been home for one week, so answers below reflect a new 5.5 gallon tank set up.

1. What kind of substrate is used in your tank and how deep is it?
Playsand + cypress (the cypress came in a hermit crab starter kit), 3 inches deep. Currently it is sand on one side, cypress on the other with a little mix in the middle.

2. Do you have gauges in the tank to measure temperature and humidity? If so, where are they located and what temperature and humidity do they usually read?
One digital combo unit, sitting on the sand at one side of the tank with the screen facing the glass. Humidity usually 75-80%, temp usually 78-80F.

3. Is a heat source used in the tank? If so, what?
Started with a mini-UTH stuck to the back of the tank. When that proved ineffective, cut a hole in the coconut fiber mat on the back wall of tank. Still ineffective, so added a 50-watt nighttime bulb in dome fixture suspended above tank.

4. What types of water are available (fresh or salt) and how is the water treated (what brands of dechlorinator or salt mix and what ratio is used to mix it)?
Starter bottles of pre-mixed freshwater and saltwater, brand All Living Things. To wet the substrate and for spritzing we use the same water conditioner as in our fish tank, Top Fin (Petsmart brand).

5. What kinds of food do you feed and how often is it replaced?
First two days, pellet food provided by school science teacher (who sent hermit crabs home with students). After that, bits of apple, pear, unseasoned cooked ground beef, peanut butter, oats drizzled with honey.

6. How long have you had the crab and what species is it, if known?
One week. While tucked in its shell we identified it as a Purple Pincer by its purple claw with a lighter tip and orangey leg.

7. Has your crab molted, and how long ago did it happen?
Trying to determine now whether it is dead or molting.

8. What type of housing are the crabs kept in, what size is it and what kind of lid is on the housing?
5.5 gallon reptile tank, a glass tank with a sliding wire screen lid.

9. How many crabs are in the tank and about how large are they?
Only one, it appears small or on the small side of medium to me.

10. How many extra shells are usually kept in the tank, if any?
Three; we added them on the third day.

11. Have there been any fumes or chemicals near the crabitat recently?
No.

12. How often do you clean the tank and how?
Tank set up is only one week old, so have not cleaned.

13. Are sponges used in the water dish? If so, how are they cleaned?
Two small sea sponges that came in a starter kit, one in each water bowl. Only one week old, have not cleaned other than to squeeze out/rinse with new fresh- or saltwater and replace.

14. Has anything new been added to your crabitat recently?
The whole tank is new. :)

15. Is there any other information you would like to share that might be helpful (anything that is regularly part of your crab care, playtime, bathing, etc.)?

16. Please describe the emergency situation in detail.
"Hermie" is sitting in the middle of the tank, mostly out of his shell, ashy looking and apparently lifeless. There is a slight dank smell which I assumed was humid tank, I only notice it when I slide the cover back and sniff with my nose right over it. It doesn't smell especially "fishy" to me, just a little acrid, but I'm afraid to pick him up for a closer smell. He's been in this position for almost 48 hours.

Prior to that: Hermie came home last Monday (one week ago), sent home by the science teacher (we had warning so our tank was ready). In the critter keeper that we transported him in, Hermie was inside his shell which was sitting in the water dish with the opening in the water. My son said he did not place Hermie into the dish, but he also did not see Hermie crawl into it. At home we transferred Hermie into the tank.

It was cold last week (for Orlando, FL) so in the evening we moved Hermie close to the back wall of the tank where the UTH is. The "sticker" thermometer on the side of the tank read around 72-73F (near as we could tell). The UTH was barely giving off heat so we didn't think it would be too warm at the back of the tank. Monday evening after dinner we noticed Hermie had come a little out of his shell, he flinched a step or two away from us but did not withdraw all the way into his shell.

Tuesday morning he was all the way back in his shell, and did not move again until Friday night. On Wednesday we added the dome heat lamp and got the temp up to 80F.

Thursday we decided to try a bath to see if he was alive or maybe stimulate/rehydrate him. I swished him shell-opening up in saltwater for a minute, then about 20 seconds in freshwater with a drop of Stress Coat in it. His pincer remained very tight over the opening and the only movement I saw was the leg next to the pincer swayed a little in the freshwater rinse. We put him in a critter keeper lined with paper towels to dry but he never came out. I found the PPS article and added some apple and pear bits to his food dish when we replaced him in the tank.

Friday I added oats drizzled with honey to the food dish, and moved Hermie next to the dish with the edge of his shell touching it, in case he was too weak to crawl there on his own. A couple of hours later I found his shell oriented 90 degrees to the way I'd left it, so I figured he had moved. Saturday morning I found his shell sitting IN the food dish right over the honey. I left for work and later that afternoon my husband and son found him in the exact same position, except he had come out of his shell! He looked "normal" as far as we could tell, I'm going to try to attach a photo. He did not move or flinch at lights or movement in the room, he was motionless.

ImageIMG_2945

Saturday evening we quickly lifted him from the food dish onto the sand next to it, so we could clean the dish and replace the food. He seemed to draw back very slightly, or perhaps shift a little, and his legs came together (the outside legs were splayed out a bit when he was sitting in the food dish). He has been in that spot ever since, looking very ashy and shrunken and lifeless. My husband rocked his shell a little and looked at him with a flashlight, and there was no flinching or other movement.

ImageIMG_2948

Is there any hope for the little guy (gal?)? Should I pick him up for a closer sniff? How many days should I wait to see if he develops a stronger smell? And in the meantime, should I cover him with the half-log hide just in case? And keep offering food?

Thank you so much. I've already gotten tons of great info from this site and reading other "is my crab dead" posts, which got us this far...

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AutumnHermie
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Re: Unresponsive 4 days, ate one day, lifeless past 48 hrs

Post by AutumnHermie » Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:59 pm

Hermie sadly looks dead to me. This could very well be a case of Post Purchase Syndrome. I'm sorry for your loss :( Just to be absolutely positive, I would pick him up and smell him. If he's dead, trust me, you'll know.





If you do decide to get another hermit crab, check out the care sheets: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=92457


Hermit crabs should never live alone, and the minimum tank size is 10 gallons. Also, cypress is not really a suitable substrate. Most crabbers recommend a 5:1 ratio of sand to Eco Earth.
Owner of 12 PP's , 4 Blue's, and 2 straw's.

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KellyCrabbieLove
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Re: Unresponsive 4 days, ate one day, lifeless past 48 hrs

Post by KellyCrabbieLove » Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:12 pm

Make sure it is play sand and not calcium sand.

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Re: Unresponsive 4 days, ate one day, lifeless past 48 hrs

Post by marandashermies » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:11 pm

I had one pass from PPS that I got from a pet store recently, and he looked the exact same. Sorry for your loss :(


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hprmom
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Re: Unresponsive 4 days, ate one day, lifeless past 48 hrs

Post by hprmom » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:28 pm

Just peeked at him again, and his eye stalks are sticking straight out (they were drooping before), and shine in the light. Do they go into a kind of rigor or something? I'm waiting for Dad to come home for the sniff test... moral support.

The sand is playsand, out of a sealed bag, and we baked it just in case since the bag had been sitting outside for a while. The crabitat was Dad and Boy's weekend homework project, they did the best they could with the info they had. If we make another attempt, we'll do the sand/eco earth in a 10 gal, and 2-3 crabs. We were hesitant to get Hermie a friend until we got the tank conditions up to par. Heartily annoyed with the science teacher who keeps sending home "easy care" pets (the mystery snail is doing well, but that's because we had prior snail and aquarium experience).

If we give it another go, can you point me to a thread on the forum or web that recommends good sources for adoption besides pet stores?


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Re: Unresponsive 4 days, ate one day, lifeless past 48 hrs

Post by theornerycheese » Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:45 pm

Isn't cypress toxic to hermit crabs since it's an evergreen?

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Re: Unresponsive 4 days, ate one day, lifeless past 48 hrs

Post by hprmom » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:05 pm

All Living Things brand was the "hermit crab starter kit" that contained "cypress bedding sample". I remember specifically reading on various websites not to use cedar, but I didn't see anything about cypress either way. I checked when Dad brought home the kit.

BTW I forgot to say thank you, everyone! I've been camped on this site every night for a week and I really appreciate all the good info and now quick responses, too.

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Re: Unresponsive 4 days, ate one day, lifeless past 48 hrs

Post by AutumnHermie » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:25 am

Is hermie dead??? He looked like he had died in the photos... But is there any chance he pulled a surface bolt?
Owner of 12 PP's , 4 Blue's, and 2 straw's.

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Re: Unresponsive 4 days, ate one day, lifeless past 48 hrs

Post by KellyCrabbieLove » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:36 am

I can't in any way shape or form understand how on Earth they decided Cyprus was a good substrate. It isn't usable for tunneling which is the entire purpose of the substrate in the first place. No, I take that back. It will be one more thing that you will think they have to have and the more money you will spend. This REALLY makes me mad that they include that in the kit.

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Re: Unresponsive 4 days, ate one day, lifeless past 48 hrs

Post by hprmom » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:00 am

AutumnHermie, he's definitely dead, Dad confirmed the fishy smell. I'm usually not squeamish but after the effort I put in all week I couldn't bring myself to sniff. I was so excited when he seemed to revive for the oats and honey! Thanks for following up.

KellyCrabbieLove, it's frustrating that something inappropriate for an animal's care would be sold in a kit. A reasonable person would assume that if it's specifically tagged for that purpose, it is correct. I questioned it when they brought it home, but as I did not find anything specifically denouncing cypress, and the tank was already set up, and Dad pointed out that it came in a kit specifically designated for crabs, we agreed to leave it for the moment and change to better stuff if Hermie lived/our son didn't get bored.

While I personally don't have a special interest in hermit crabs as pets (yet...), Dad and Boy both want to give it another go, and I'm too responsible (perfectionistic?) to let any creature under my roof suffer unnecessarily. So I'll be hanging out in the care/habitat/newbie forums researching before we bring anyone else home!

Thanks everyone, again.

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Re: Unresponsive 4 days, ate one day, lifeless past 48 hrs

Post by KellyCrabbieLove » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:27 am

Best thing to do is wait until warm weather and try again. They are interesting pets and often comical in their high jinx. They aren't typically a hands on pet and bury to molt and are missing for weeks at a time so he may lose interest. Crabbing isn't for everyone but I know that if you give it a chance it very well could be for you. If not, there are always people on here to adopt if you decide later that they aren't the pet for you. Granted, I am totally biased lol I couldn't imagine not having my noisy mess making and tank destroying brats. :)

It is a hobby that takes time and money to get started but the costs can be minimized in soooooo many ways. Play sand is the best substrate which is typically $5 or less for a 50lb bag. You can add Coco fiber which in a small tank is also relatively inexpensive. Old Tupperware or food containers can be used for pools and hides. Food (don't buy the pet store pellets - they suck lol yes, technical term lol) you can give them the same stuff you were, fruit, veggies, oats, honey, peanut butter, unseasoned meats that are raw or cooked. They love egg shells and the goopy whites inside.

Over time a few dollars at a time you can add in plants and other decor. A coconut at the grocery store will be the best thing ever for you. Cut the thing in half, scoop out the insides, cut a door and BOOM best hide ever! (And delicious) The coconut meat and milk can be fed to them too. Chop it all up and give a little at a time. You can dehydrate or freeze or a mix of the 2 the pieces you chop up. As long as you feed them, keep it humid and warm, give them shells to wear and keep their water clean they will thrive (if healthy) they can live over 30 years but make sure you have 2 or more because they don't do well alone. There are going to be emergencies from time to time and until they molt the first time you aren't out of woods yet for post purchase syndrome. I could go on because I am so passionate about them but I am going to go spy on mine since they got a new food tonight and I have 3 adoptions that have only been here 5 days. It is oddly soothing to watch them eat and climb around. :)


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Re: Unresponsive 4 days, ate one day, lifeless past 48 hrs

Post by hprmom » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:13 pm

KellyCrabbieLove, so much good info, thank you! I was talking with a girlfriend today, her kids have lost interest in her two hermit crabs and she offered them to us along with the tank. She says they're "hardy" which is to say that out of the original batch of six, these two have stayed alive for two years in moderate conditions (tank on an enclosed porch in Florida year-round, no additional heat source, a lot more coco fiber (which she says they love) than sand, and she didn't realize it was supposed to be sand-castle consistency so she's only kept it damp. Sounds like she feeds them well (no store bought food, but no extra-special effort). Other than roaches in a rotting log she removed, she's never noticed any pests (pests are my biggest fear.. I hate roaches but live in Florida!). She says they are not small, but not big either (medium?) and haven't molted in probably over a year. Based on what I've read here, my guess is that if I improved their substrate type/depth, they'd probably dig in and disappear right away... One is in a painted shell, others are available so she's not sure why it hasn't switched out.

I'd be interested in knowing how this sounds to you? What I should look out for, what issues I might right into? I'm gonna think about it and sit down with Dad over the weekend before we decide. He spent over $100 just getting the 5.5 gallon set-up (including the tank, which is pretty much useless now), so I can see how easy it would be to drop a lot of money once you get going! I tend not to do anything halfway. ;)

I'm way off the "emergency" topic at this point, so I can move this over to the newbie section of the forum if that's better. Thanks!

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Re: Unresponsive 4 days, ate one day, lifeless past 48 hrs

Post by KellyCrabbieLove » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:49 am

I can't split posts off through my phone but I will figure it out in the morning unless another mod comes along and does it. I really hope they do because I have not had any luck with it and I have been a mod for close to a year now.

I thing it sounds like a good thing for you since you'll have the tank and everything. Personally I would rather die than risk roaches in my house. Bugs freak me out!!! I would replace the substrate with play sand and a bit of Ecoearth (cocofiber) they are probably going to dig down to destress and molt as soon as you get them. They need to molt if it has been that long. If they wait too long a hormone builds up inside them and kills them :( I am a perfectionist and spent far too much money on my tank and everything in it. Keep your eye out for sales on petco's website because they have online sales all the time on plants and cork. Sales like 40% off and free shipping type sales. The painted shell...he may just like it lol or he hasn't found one he likes better. They can never have too many shell options. Eventually he will change when ready. If you can peel some of the paint off without stressing him too much go for it. I always do that so at least what I peel off is that much less that won't chip off in the tank and risk their health.

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