Should I be worried?

Superman&Roger · Post by **Superman&Roger** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:17 am

If you read my introductory post in the fall, you know that I have two foster crabs, Superman & Jolly Roger. Superman is a bit bigger than Roger and seems to be a bit of a bully. He hasn't hurt Roger, but I am worried he might. Since Roger came up from his molt two days ago, Superman has been on top of him, or keeping him in a corner. Roger did change his shell when he came up, and I think that Superman is a bit jealous. He's always been a bit territorial over shells, whether he's wearing them or not. When he finally changed out of his Superman shell just after we first got them last summer, into a Ladybug shell, he actually kept one claw on the Superman shell so Roger couldn't take it--even though Superman was clearly too big for his old shell. Oddly Roger's new shell along with other, nearly identical ones have been in the tank for months but Superman will NOT change out of his ladybug shell. His shell is clearly too small for him, peeling paint and looks pretty bad, but if he changes out of it, it's not for long. (The new shells are all natural. The painted shells came with them.) I have read all the posts about aggressive crabs and what might be causing it. They have been in a 20 gallon tank since early January--so lots of room. There are lots of things to climb on, including their new fresh water waterfall. There is a salt water pool, calcium, I change their food daily giving them something fresh (veg or meat) everyday, with either dried brine shrimp and/or crab food along with it. There are several shells to choose from. I collected oak leaves in the fall and put a new one in each week. I can't think there's anything they don't have that they need. Is there anything else I should be doing? Should I only worry if he actually hurts Roger?

Theodora · Post by **Theodora** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:20 am

Hm... I don't know much about your problem but what do you mean "Super man changed in to a lady bug shell that looks really bad and the paint is peeling" You mean you put painted shells in the tank!?!?!

Laurie LeAnn · Post by **Laurie LeAnn** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:05 am

have you tried giving them both a bath after a molt has happened to make them smell neutral? If they are purple pinchers they tend to go towards the turbo types of shells, mine loved the tapestry ones. you might have to iso one of them until you can maybe get more shells of different types. try the bath thing and have you also given them popcorn, worm castings, other types of foods that are chitlings ? If you do get dif shells and he changes sometimes if you kind of stay out the way but still so that you can see they change then if he does get the painted shell out of there.

Superman&Roger · Post by **Superman&Roger** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:19 am

The foster crabs only came with painted shells. By the time we did our own homework, and realized they were staying for a while they'd molted and changed into other, bigger painted shells. We put natural shells in the tank hoping they will move into them, for almost 10 months now, but we can't convince them to move out of the old shells and into the new ones. I have read everything I can find on hermit crabs since they became my responsibility, and understand the potential dangers of painted shells, but alas the hermit crabs have not read the same literature. They prefer their old gnarly painted ones over the pretty natural shells.

Superman&Roger · Post by **Superman&Roger** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:20 am

Yes, they've had popcorn, all kinds of other goodies. I just am not sure what's making him so cranky with poor Roger.

Crabber85 · Post by **Crabber85** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:59 am

There are a host of different things that can trigger aggression in hermitcrabs including but not limited to diet, lack of suitable shells, climate conditions being off and lack of certain key nutrients such as Nitrogen, Calcium, Protein, Chitin(the hardening agent present in all crustaceans), Cellulose(aka fiber)and Healthy fatty acids(Oils like fish or Virgin Olive).If a hermitcrab is missing just one nutrient from it's diet it will go into what we refer to as a nutrient deficiency which will trigger aggression and cannibalism as hermitcrabs see each other as potential meals from time to time and especially when something is missing from their diet and they are forced to address the issue themselves.Please take a look at our safe foods lists in the section labeled Zoea they will be at the top of the page.The lists will help you if your having trouble with your diet plan. Sometimes hermitcrabs are just aggressive because of past abuse or neglect that have received from before we got them which will make them hostile towards their tank mates and us unfortunately and there is only one way to deal with the issue which is to keep the aggressive crab by itself if it keeps escalating the acts of violence to the point that the other crabs are in danger of loosing limbs or their lives.

Superman&Roger · Post by **Superman&Roger** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:01 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. When the crabs came to live with us, they were in one of those 1 gallon tanks. When I realized they were staying for a while, and after doing my research, I bought them a 10 gallon tank, and more recently the 20. I think in the one gallon tank they didn't really interact because they were barely surviving. From what I understand originally there were four crabs, but were down to two when they came to stay. They'd never molted and in less than a year have molted 3 times. The first time they molted pretty much at the same time, but since then, one is down for 8 weeks, and then the other goes. Maybe it's just that they're re-establishing their relationship each time? I will keep an eye on them. If I have to, I'll resort to putting a partition between them--which would be such a shame since they now have all this room.

Crabber85 · Post by **Crabber85** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:43 am

It's easy to see why two hermits died and none of them were able to molt in the Kritter Killer aka Kritter Keeper because the substrate was too shallow and not the right kind to allow for burrowing and molt pocket carving.Being in the KK for so long meant that the poor crabs were having to post pone molting and the hormone they use to do this is secreted in the eye stalks when proper conditions cant be found and after a period of time the hormone actually goes toxic and will either kill the crab outright or throw it into a surface molt either way the odds are stacked against it.This could actually be a big contributing factor to the aggressiveness of one of the crabs towards the other.The best thing you can do right now is to offer things like mushed banana or raw/organic honey in a bottle cap as these are high energy easy to digest foods that will help to calm aggression.You might also want to try offering raw fish one night, raw whole shrimp the next night and raw chicken the next night so that you have three nights in one week that are solid protein nights do this for two weeks and this should help curb the aggression as well.

Superman&Roger · Post by **Superman&Roger** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:57 am

Thanks again for the suggestions. I put in some nice organic buckwheat honey, they had banana and peanut butter the day before. Last night was raw almonds, a fresh strawberry, and popcorn, along with dried brine shrimp and crab food (which they seem to like). I do give them raw fish/shrimp/scallops/beef, and cooked chicken, but maybe not often enough. They can have raw shrimp tonight. ( I am hesitant to offer raw chicken as a friend's son contracted salmonella from his snake's habitat and was very ill.)After we realized we were going to be responsible for the crabs and I began reading up on them, I was very sad to think they'd been living like that for eight months. I went out and bought them the 10 gallon tank the very next day. When I put them in it, both crabs headed for the two pools and just sat in them because they were so dehydrated. When I look back on it now, they couldn't have had much longer to live the way they were living. I don't really blame the person who bought them, I blame the people who sell hermit crabs as 'throw away' pets that don't require a lot of care. Pet stores are very ignorant on the care of hermit crabs. And in our area they are very inadequately stocked with supplies, I have spent more money and time on these creatures than I ever expected, but it is not their fault that they are in captivity, so I am trying to make their lives as good as can be under the circumstances. They have at least tripled in size since they came to live with us. In fact the original pools I bought them are now their food dishes and I had to buy bigger pools for them to sit in--though they don't really do that anymore. I guess they don't have a need. So the fact that they have all this space and things to climb on, and Superman is making Roger stay in a corner, bothers me. When I catch him cornering Roger, I move him away. Maybe eventually he will figure out that someone bigger than him is looking out for Roger!Again, thanks for the help. Hopefully the diet suggestions will work.

Crabber85 · Post by **Crabber85** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:25 am

You are most definitely welcome as helping other crabbers is what the site was founded for. Another point of intrest is shells sometimes a poor fitting shell and lack of other suitable shells will cause a form of aggression we call a shell dispute where one crab who is in an ill fitting shell wil zero in on one of it's tankmates that might have a better looking/fitting shell on that the aggressor wants.A lot of the time when a shell dispute happens you'll notice one crab being constantly targeted and eventually it will be cornered and the shell it's in rocked and rolled violently by the aggressor which usually results in the victim leaving his shell and either taking another empty shell or claiming the abandoned shell of the aggressor either way the victim usually gets away with no injuries and a better fitting shell out of the whole ordeal.In some rarer instances the victim will not have his shell rocked but instead the bully or aggressor will just simply pull the victim out which will either end up the victim loosing a limb or in the worst case it's life as hermitcrabs do not give up their shells easily and can not be physically removed as they will alow themselves to be ripped apart rather than give up the shell.Which leads me to my next question what is their shell selection like?

Superman&Roger · Post by **Superman&Roger** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:46 pm

I have seven shells in there for them to choose from. Frustratingly, the crabs are at a size where pet store shells are too small. Hunting down new ones is a challenge. I did go to the craft store where I bought two bags of assorted shells (all they had) which only yielded 4 acceptable shells, but between those, and some others I had around the house, they have enough of a selection, I think.Roger just came up from a molt a few days ago and right away changed out of his shell into a new one. He's always been one for trying on new clothes! Now if Superman had wanted that shell, it had been laying around for eight weeks with no one in it, and no one interested in it. Not to mention that there are three others that are the same size, same appearance as the one Roger just moved in to. Superman thinks about moving shells a lot. He constantly cleans them out, but rarely, if ever gives them a test drive. It took him forever to decide to leave his old shell. He was way too big for his old shell but didn't want to give it up. Even when he moved shells, he kept one claw on his old one for the better part of a day so Roger, who was coveting the shell, couldn't have it. Roger finally gave up and chose a different one. I rinse out the shells that are in the tank fairly often, which usually peaks Superman's interest for a while, but he's stubborn. I think the shell he's in now is too small, he can't tuck himself up into it, like Roger can in his new one.Given the opening of the shell Superman is in, I ordered eight shells online, two shells each of four different sizes. Alas they arrived and are all too big for them right now. Hopefully they live long enough to move into them because they are quite lovely and I spent a whack of money on them!So, long story, but I do believe there are adequate shells of adequate sizes.

Laurie LeAnn · Post by **Laurie LeAnn** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:11 pm

I bought the darn gauge that you measure shells so you get the right size and is supposed to be easy to read. IT IS NOT! it's confusing! I don't know if you read the bottom numbers or the top of the ruler thing. I need to order shells to desperately but don't to be stuck with shells way to big again like i did last time, i have a box a shells that huge!

Crabber85 · Post by **Crabber85** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:20 am

It's actually recommended to have four to five shells per crab one smaller than crabs current shell, one or two the same size and one or two just a little larger to give them a size range to choose from.Depending on the species of hermitcrab they will have particular preferances to the shells they will wear like PP's or Purple Pinchers like shells with an O shaped opening and a mop or Mother of Pearl Lineing because it's comfortable to the hermitcrabs abdomen like turbos which are commonly availble shells just not in larger sizes unfortunately.PP's also tend to like Murex shells ie: Pink and White Murex but Murex shells typically have to be ordered from the internet.I have eleven hermitcrabs both PP and E or ecuadorian and I have a total of thirty extra shells in the enclosure with them at all times but oddly enough only a hand full of the shells are used.lol

Superman&Roger · Post by **Superman&Roger** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:08 pm

I just looked up Murex shells and was surprised that I do have a couple I can put back into the tank. The 'boys' never seemed to like them much, to be honest. I had them in before and though they tried them on, they didn't seem to be impressed with them. They are more cumbersome than the turbo shells. The 7 shells they have to share are turbo shells (that is 7 not including the ones they are wearing, or the couple that are too big for them), and they will have to do. I actually think part of Superman's issue with the current selection is that those shells are a bit heavier than his painted one which is thin and maybe in his opinion a little more aerodynamic. But I have to say, this is where I'm putting my foot down. I may like to have an endless supply of beautiful shoes to choose from, but alas, sometimes I have to make do. Superman and Roger are going to have suck it up and make do--at least for the time being. Though I will definitely keep my eyes open for others. They do seem to be getting along a little better today. Maybe they are just sorting things out again as they become reacquainted after not really seeing each other for a few months with their opposing molt schedules. I can promise them that they are not getting any new playmates as long as they are living with me, so they better learn to get along! It did look like they were partying hard last night. There were decimated popcorn kernels littering the tank, their salt water pool was empty, the little shell of honey was buried. All in all it looked like a wild night in the crabitat!

Laurie LeAnn · Post by **Laurie LeAnn** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:21 pm

yep i have the murex to and they won't go near them. I tried to have someone help me read the gauge thing, even posted a pic of it and they were reading it wrong to i think cause from they were telling me I would be ordering all the same size of what i have and they are to big, the mouth on the shells are so large and the shell it's self is so huge, that 2 crabs could fit in one shell! crabby paddy is even 2 small for it!