New take on heating and lighting ideas for hermit crabs

[JediMasterThrash]

Gertie, yeah, there probably is some lack of communication here.I have been recommending low-wattage moonglos for some time, and have been continuously fighting a war against the myth that they dry out the tank and are dangerous.Then Bill comes along, and posts stuff that I basically agree with, which is that overhead radiant heat is more natural, safer, and efficient than UTHs. Some of the specifics of what he's advocating may be beyond what I'd recommend to newcommers though.But then several posts rebuke some of Bill's posts with blanket statements that seem to say that all overhead radiant heat is bad and dangerous and hermies don't like it. These posts should have been more specific, by saying that certain methods of overhead heating aren't recommended for beginners, rather than denying all the benefits of a large collection of methods.So, anyway, that's where my posts came in. To kind of defend my stance, which seemed to be collateral damage in some arguments against Bill's stance.Also, there's like 4 threads with almost the exact same title started by Bill, I think sometimes I forget which thread I'm in Also, Gertie, if you have a lot of experience with heating from lights and emitters, please share it! Since I'm thinking of upgrading my heating, I could use some more info.Thanks,

[GSnicklegrove]

Jedi,I sure will post some information about heating devices sometime. I think why some of these subjects are not spoken about more, is because so much has changed in crabbing the last 3 years, and the methods that could be used on a 5 gallon may not work on a 100 gallon, etc. These discussions are great in the sense the crabbing community can hashout specifics of all kinds of things. There still is not absolute proof what heating method is best for every possible setting, because there are too many factors that need to be considered.Perhaps, instead of a big thread about whether or not to use heat lamps, we could start a new one where people chip in their knowledge and expereince with heating devices.I am not explaining this well. Let me try again, lol. We start a thread. I say what I use, why, what I have tried, what I haven't tried, or anything pertinent to personal expereince with heathing devices. Then the next member posts, etc. No ads, no recommendations, just what we each know and think, and what we question.It doesn't have to be a thread where anyone is recommending anything for crabbers, which is what happened here...more like a group effort to make an informational thread on heating devices, or questions people have about them i.e. how to up the heat on a UTH, or other stuff.I don't have time to start a thread today, but you can if you want, I will make my reply as soon as I have some time. However, there are other opinions here that may prove valuable. For instance, I know Cudacrabby has owned a pet storem run an exotic rescue outfit, and has many snakes and exotics herself. I believe Thamster may also have some expereince with heating devices? Also, Crystal Stone I know has two geckos, Toad has a whole reptile farm, and I am sure there are all kinds of other members who have heating devices on their crab tanks or reptile tanks, who might be able to pitch in with some opinions.Again, to be clear to everyone here, I absolutely agree with JMT's recommendations about moonglows, and their safety. I hope the new thread idea makes some sense. No recommendations, but question and expereince gathering.Gertie

[Aviate]

quote:Originally posted by Jedi Master Thrash:To kind of defend my stance, which seemed to be collateral damage in some arguments against Bill's stance. I think this is part of the problem, and one that I have addressed with Bill in PM. He is using your views as a "backup" of his own opinion. However, you do not use his methods, you use your own ideas with low watt moon glow bulbs. So now you are lumped into a category you do not even fall into. This is a great example of "buyer beware" for all readers of these types of posts. Do not be certain that someone is using a method just because someone else says its so.It is not beneficial for anyone to say "You should do this, because I do it and Jedi agrees". This thread has gotten quite convoluded. And in no way is this going to do anything but scare off a newcomer.Jedi, if I sounded like I was generalizing, I did not mean to. I always tend to use the lowest common denominator... a kk or 10 gallon, when advocating crab care. My statements are usually revolving around the belief that we are dealing with a small tank, not a 75 gallon like Bill has. And yes he does have a bubbler (by way of his small world filter) in his 3 gallon water basins, to answer your comment, which certainly adds a ton of humidity. You advocate 15 watt moon glows. Great! thats not what I am disputing. I am disputing the 40 watt ceramic IN TANK heating elements Bill uses. I stand by my original statement that this WILL Dry out a small tank.I think your methods are just fine, or I wouldnt be advertising your care sheet everywhere.If that wasnt clear, then thats unfortunate. I think the way you have your tank set up is very different than what was offered in the original post in this thread. If I got on here for the first time with a KK with two crabs, I would not know which end was up! UTH? NO UTH? Ceramic fixture in the tank? No, too hot? A whole lighted hood? Moon glow bulbs? Floruescent? Id tear my hair out.I agree with Gertie. A new thread based on your experiences where no ones opinion trods all over others is in order here. Like it or not, the "lets stop all UTH use" is in the minority here, and its confusing to new users when we are all defending our methods rather than discussing our experiences.It may be time to lock this thread and perhaps at a later date start a new one where we can all discuss our own tanks and preferences.

[Guest]

This has gotten way out of hand, and I apologize. All I meant to do was present new ideas to provide more options for heating hermit crab enclosures. It was clear to me from all the UTH posts that a lot of people still have problems getting the right temperature using a UTH. Sorry you got dragged into this JMT, you have been helpful. I think the only place I quoted you are referred to you was in the original post when I gave a link where you recommended different wattages for different size tanks. Apparently some people took this the wrong way taking it that you completely agreed and used the same methods I did-- that wasn't my intent, I just thought the basic wattage guidelines you came up with made sense so I linked to them.Look, heating is a trcky issue. There are problems with any method that need to be addressed. I think it is a good idea for people to just post what method they use. I think maybe even a template that has tank size, substrate and substrate depth, house temperature, tank night and day temps, humidity, etc. on it would be helpful so we can standardize things somewhat.Just to correct the record, I have a Small World "bubbler" filter in my fresh water basin and a Sand Shark 60 GPH filter in my salt basin. I do not have incandescent bulbs in my tank, I have a 40 watt infrared ceramic heat emitter mounted top center near the front, away from any climbing aparatus. It is a large tank, 75 gallon, so it can accomodate this easily. I obviously wouldn't recommend this for a 5 gallon CK'er. That's why I linked to JMT's wattage per tank guidelines. I hoped to have made it clear that the heating divice chosen needs to be appropraite for the size enclosure and temperature desired, sorry if I missed the mark. I do still use a UTH, but it is modulated by a thermostat. If you do not have access to a thermostat, you should check the temperature your UTH or whatever heating device puts out for the safety of your crabs. You can plug and unplug the UTH manually if needed to keep it from overheating them. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and it can be done on a variety of budgets. The end result should be a temperature range that is ideal for hermit crabs where they can warm up or cool down as they find necessary. Judging by the heating question posts on multiple sites, we obviously have a long way to go on heating recommendations for beginners and experienced crabbers alike.

[Guest]

Some comments on Gertie's post on UTH's in this thread. My sister is a world reknowned exotics vet in Florida and has been witness to many an injury and death due to UTH's in different types of animals. I still use a UTH, but it is modulated with a thermostat. If you don't have access to a thermostat, you can plug/unplug to modulate so it doesn't over heat. We are all after the safety of hermit crabs. I have not recommended a 2 gal CK'er to use a 40+ watt ceramic. That's not to say some other radiant heat source like a small 15 watt fluorescent cannot provide warmth as well as a UTH in a small tank without drying it out. If UTH is the standard recommendation then words of caution need to be added to watch them and check temps under the substrate so as to insure it is not too warm in case a crab burrows in over them. I have been crabbing on and off since 1979 and also have several years experience with reptiles and heating and lighting to answer Aviate's questions from one of her posts in this thread. I don't think you need to have a "sample size" or study, etc. to prove a heating method works-- if it produces the proper end result, i.e. offering a temperature gradient in the preferred range of 75-84 deg F while maintaining humidity, then it works. I think any way you can get your hermit crabs to a stable temperature in their preferred range is fine-- the point being there should be stronger advocation of monitoring temperature with a decent thermometer. Having more than one option to get to that end is not a bad thing. The companies that have supposedly studied UTH's have tailored these no doubt to fit their sales paradigm. I think the most important thing to stress is that no matter what heating method is chosen, temperature should be monitored carefully along with humidity. You can't just say that a UTH is the simplest and leave it at that-- it leaves too much to chance. This may lead a new crabber to just get one and assume it is safe when no recommendation as to wattage or temperature checking has been made. Different brands have different wattages in the relatively same size. Hagen has desert and rain forest UTH's. The Desert put out twice the wattage in the same size as the rain forest-- the rain forest wattage UTH is probably more appropriate for hermit crabs, yet many may buy the desert and only think that the size of the UTH is what is important and ignore the wattage. How many unexplained crab death could be chalked up to overheating from UTH's-- will we ever know that since they haven't been monitored by most?I have no problem with recommending UTH as one way to heat hermit crabs. I think there should be a listing somewhere of different size and wattage UTH's and recommended methods of monitoring and modulating the temperature of UTH's for the safety of burrowing hermit crabs.This is only my opinion, I hope I have not offended anyone.