Mixing Sand With Coconut Fiber Substrate -- Yes or No?

Post by **JediMasterThrash** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:59 pm

I'm in a bit of a hurry, so didn't have time to search the old posts. But I'm in immediate need of making my decisions on how my next tank setup will be, so here I post.I originally wanted to go for a full vivarium, buuut my wife laid the smack down on those plans ("I don't want any bugs in my house!". "but, they're good bugs" I say! ::sigh:So, no leaf litter and mulch from the woods... I just got coco-fiber and playsand again. I haven't used coco-fiber before. I've had it for a while though, and have been reading all the posts and info on it.So my question is, to create a long-living tank (I don't intend for another deep clean for at least 6 months) that doesn't have bad bacteria or mold growth, am I better off mixing the coco-fiber and sand together, or just having a half-n-half scenario?Thanks,JMT.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:23 pm

hi i have mine about 2 parts sand to 1 part cocofiber.i mix it and then bake it at 350 for about an hour , then let it cool before i mix it in the tank, since ive been doing that before i put it in tank i havent had to deep clean and havent had any bugs either . someone else may have a better idea but that works for me .if the mixture is too dry just wet it with a little dechlor water. my hermies really love that stuff. they burrow and tunnel all the time , and they are much more active. hope this helps.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:31 pm

I dont think you would have any probs going with that, me i use 2 parts peatmoss mixed with 1 part sand yes its baked befour hand then mixed all together and moistend. I havent had any probs with mold or bugs and every few days i just stir up the end with that bedding to air it around then moisten it up again and i havent changed it in months and still no probs..

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:36 pm

Sorry about the bug thing. You know, she'll never even notice if you use the outside leaf litter, and any bugs will be really small... I'm just sayin...I use aragonite sand and coc fiber. One thing I do with the coco fiber is I boil some of their salt water (about 1 gallon per brick), and then once boiling, I turn off the heat and drop in the brick. This ensures a nice sterile mix for the coco fiber and the salt will act as a mold inhibitor.You can also use some "good bacteria" products. I put some Cycle in a spray bottle of water. You can also use a product called "Biotize" (I can get this for you). IT has 4 different non-pathogenic "good bacteria" in it. Some have said not to bother with this and that they won't help you establish a colony--- may not entirely on their own, but I believe they certainly can supplement the good bacteria you already have and ensure your balance of good to bad favors the good. They also say products like these are only for water and not for the "land" in your terrarium. I don't think the bacteria know the difference Dude, it's Christmas-- grab yourself a handlfull of outside leaf litter on me

Post by **JediMasterThrash** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:42 am

You mention the "salt-water inhibits mold" belief. I'd heard this many times before, but could never find a source for it. Once a while back I posted asking if anyone had a source or research on the issue, but nobody had any. Do you have any proof?Do you need to regularly mist the substrate with cycle/biotize in order to keep the good bacteria in the majority? Or do you just do this once when you setup the tnak? I'm not sure it's a good idea to aeriate the substrate regularly. I've always got half a dozen crabs buried, possibly molting. I don't want to aerate molting crabs. If you don't aerate, will the cycle that's already in the substrate help, or is there no solution?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:05 pm

I have three tanks so I can try 3 different ways of dealing with substrates (and I have a fourth in the works where I am going to go "live" but probably with a frog first before I go with a hermie). I use all sand in one, half sand and half FB (divided) in another, and FB with sand mixed in in the third.I can't speak to the more complex issues right now, but I can tell you what I'm experiencing with my crabbies.In the tank with the divided FB/sand, I find that ALL crabs save one ruggie only go to the sand section to eat because I keep the food dishes in the sand area. The crabs in the tank are 1 PP, 1 Indo, and 4 ruggies. I used fresh dechlor rather than salt water to prep the FB in that tank and I have only seen mold when food has been dragged into the FB and I have spot cleaned it without any problems. The substrate has not been changed for 2 months, and I don't use any special treatments on it. I do add fresh oak leaves every couple of weeks, which the crabs chomp on, and I remove them every so often and replace with fresh. I use a wooden chopstick to aerate the FB every couple of weeks--but I just stir the top part and avoid any areas where I think a crab is buried. The nice part about the FB is that mine seem to bury all the way to the bottom because it's so light, so it's easy to know where they are. The other thing that I've noticed is that the crabs have mixed the FB into the sand in the divide area, and they seem to really like that area a lot. I have 2 that regularly tunnel through it and one has created a burrow under a cocohut there which he is returning to on a regular basis.In my all sand tank, I have 5 PPs, and they seem to be doing OK and they seem to be happy. They don't bury as much though, and when they do bury, they seem to do it under water dishes or near water sources. I have 3 crabs in a burrow under the fresh water dish and another under the salt. The other crab is a weirdo and he hides in the plastic vines, LOL.My final tank has my two straws. I started them with all tropical play sand, but decided to offer them the mix of sand and FB. They seem to love it. They tunnel, the substrate seems moist but keeps its form very well, and they dig and bury and undig regularly, and both have created burrows they retreat to regularly that I don't disturb. I recently added a second level to the tank made of a turtle dock filled with sand and some moss. They visit it every day, but they seem to prefer their moist sand/FB burrows for long term hanging out. I did treat the FB in that tank with salt water. No mold at all yet, and it's been 3 to 4 weeks. So far, so good.My preference at this point, based on observing the crab behavior, is to go with FB/sand mix. I've noticed that the all-sand tanks DO brick over the UTH, and I did have one crab get stuck there and die. I feel like that would not have happened if there was some FB there to hold the moisture in. I have noticed more attraction to the moist FB/sand mixture than the plain sand; plain FB also seems to be a favorite, but I don't want to feed in it, and I have heard some molting stories that worry me. My PP and my Indo are molting in FB right now, so I'm going to hold off on judgment till they come up! I also like the fact that the FB/sand mix holds its shape and burrows so well! I love to see the tunnels my crabbies make and watch them bury the tunnel when they want to rather than have it collapse on them because the sand is too dry! Just my 2 observational cents!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:19 pm

Hi Jedi,I've used FB mixed with calci-sand since Sept. 7th. No deep clean yet - all hermies alive and thriving - Small Fry just molted (he was my first molt)Now that winter is here and the air is drier, every few days I mix in some dechlorinated water to the FB that is over the UTH. Every 3-4 weeks I sprinkle some fresh calci-sand on the top.No mold or bugs - knock on wood Peace,Kimberly

silvercamaro77 · Post by **silvercamaro77** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:30 am

In my main tank I have FB and crushed coral seperated by a divider. I haven't had any problems with mold since the FB was new. (I've had it in there since Februaryish and I just added another brick on top of it a couple of weeks ago.) In my 40 gallon tank (which I've only had for a couple of months) I just added FB in with the sand, so I really can say anything about how it acts in the long term.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:33 am

i use play sand and coco fiber mixture. i followed the directions on the coco fiber and added water to it , then mixed it with the play sand, this made my humidity rise over 100 degrees. so i took everything out and baked it. now the humidity is 75-80 degrees. since then i have not had any problems with mold or anything.the crabs love it, they like to dig and hide in it.