Should I dig for the inevitable?

[kornchaser]

I have two crabs that have been under molting/de stressing for a while now. I thought they were okay because they changed shells a lot before they went under so I'm like yay! New shell, new start, new home. Right? Well I have a big urge to dig.
I know I've already dug up a perfectly fine crab big oops on my part, I thought Poseidon wanted Octavius's shell or some sort of squabble lasting for 4 or so days that turned out to be claws on glass. Octavius is still doing good and going to be in ISO for a month or probably more. That's why I came to you guys first and hopefully do this right.
Anyways my reason for wanting to dig is I have two teeny crab that have been under for 8-10 weeks. Flower for 8 and Pepper for 10. The longest my other teeny molted for was over a month which is usually the max so I'm a bit concerned.
I believe the correct response to this issue is that a dead crab won't harm the others and not to dig while one is molting. But the one who just went under is on the complete other side of the tank under the salt water dish on the right while Pepper I know is in the far left corner and I have no clue where Flower is.

In my 10g: Sub is 5 or so inches, humidity and temp usually about 75/75. Three under, Pepper & Flower are the concerned crabs and Aries went under like three days ago. My newest Winifred is mingling with what I believe is Adrian. Three; Winifred, Adrian, and Turbo, are up and about and healthy. Six total. Two micro, three teeny & one small.


Hermit mommy of 10 PP babies: Octavius Flemming, Poseidon, Junior, Matty Pumpkin, Turbo, Aries, Kaylee Frye, Pepper, Flower and Adrian Shephard.

[wodesorel]

Leave them be. I know it's hard! But small crabs do this thing where they sneak up in the middle of the night for a few days to reload on food and water, and then bury again for weeks on end. Firefly was a micro when I got him, and during the first year I saw him all of four times, the following year only five. It wasn't until he became a medium in size that he stayed out more. Little crabs by nature are easy pickings for predators because they have no defenses. Their main goal at that age is to grow as fast as possible. Just because you think they've been down for two or three months straight because you haven't spotted them doesn't mean they've been underground that entire time.

[hermitcrab24]

Leave them be. I know it's hard! But small crabs do this thing where they sneak up in the middle of the night for a few days to reload on food and water, and then bury again for weeks on end. Firefly was a micro when I got him, and during the first year I saw him all of four times, the following year only five. It wasn't until he became a medium in size that he stayed out more. Little crabs by nature are easy pickings for predators because they have no defenses. Their main goal at that age is to grow as fast as possible. Just because you think they've been down for two or three months straight because you haven't spotted them doesn't mean they've been underground that entire time.

Yes, my teeny, Little Bill, has been up and down since I got him around the end of November. if I get up early enough I usually catch him in the food bowl, before he quickly runs away.

[kornchaser]

Yes, my teeny, Little Bill, has been up and down since I got him around the end of November. if I get up early enough I usually catch him in the food bowl, before he quickly runs away.

I'll have to check to see if the food has been disturbed tomorrow. I changed it last night so about 24h ago and it hasn't been disturbed. With 6 crabs, even teeny/micros is that normal?
Also, is sitting in the moss pit for days on end normal?Turbo (who's in an apple murex lol) hasn't really been out of it that I can tell for two-three days and he hasn't molted since I got him while every other crab I get from the Petstore has to molt as soon as I get him/her. Matty Pumpkin was in the moss pit for a while before he molted there and I don't want Turbo to do that.
Another thing, (sorry so many questions) there's a big tunnel underneath the saltwater dish where Aries is molting and Fred (Winifred) got caught going in it and possibly bothering her during her molt/de stressing, how would I go about keeping them apart without a spare ISO? Thanks again guys.


Hermit mommy of 10 PP babies: Octavius Flemming, Poseidon, Junior, Matty Pumpkin, Turbo, Aries, Kaylee Frye, Pepper, Flower and Adrian Shephard.

[wodesorel]

My Teeny Tank has 6 small and micro crabs, and I can never tell if they've eaten unless they get a cookie or dried fish or shrimp, as that's the only time they drag food off to the back to hide and eat. Most days it looks like I'm throwing out as much as I put in, but I'm a night owl and catch them out eating frequently at 3am so I know they have!

Yep, hiding in a moss pit is completely normal during the day. They may be coming out and going right back to the same spot, too. Molting in moss is also completely normal for tiny crabs since they can be done in just a couple of days. I just leave mine in there if they do.

Big tunnels are for hanging out in. When they molt they fill in behind them to where you normally can't tell they've buried down, which also protects them from the other crabs. Mine have divots and surface caves and big open-mouth tunnels all over the tank, and they do share them and use them as communal hiding places.

[kornchaser]

My Teeny Tank has 6 small and micro crabs, and I can never tell if they've eaten unless they get a cookie or dried fish or shrimp, as that's the only time they drag food off to the back to hide and eat. Most days it looks like I'm throwing out as much as I put in, but I'm a night owl and catch them out eating frequently at 3am so I know they have!

I caught one of mine earlier in the food dish and he hid then ran off when I walked by and it still looks undisturbed, it's not tossed around and mixed like in my big tank lol.

Yep, hiding in a moss pit is completely normal during the day. They may be coming out and going right back to the same spot, too. Molting in moss is also completely normal for tiny crabs since they can be done in just a couple of days. I just leave mine in there if they do.

Now see I was told that moss pit molts are thee worst things for a crab EVER because of cannibalism and it's practically a surface molt THEN I've read that some owners put extra moss pits in there for molting and nobody else bats an eye???? Getting a lot of mixed answers...

Big tunnels are for hanging out in. When they molt they fill in behind them to where you normally can't tell they've buried down, which also protects them from the other crabs. Mine have divots and surface caves and big open-mouth tunnels all over the tank, and they do share them and use them as communal hiding places.

I had no idea! I just moved Fred away from the tunnel out of fear but I probably just scared her away from making a friend awe!


Hermit mommy of 10 PP babies: Octavius Flemming, Poseidon, Junior, Matty Pumpkin, Turbo, Aries, Kaylee Frye, Pepper, Flower and Adrian Shephard.

[CallaLily]

Now see I was told that moss pit molts are thee worst things for a crab EVER because of cannibalism and it's practically a surface molt

That was from me, though not exactly those words. IMO, moss pit molts would be as worrisome as surface molts. I have had teeny crabs but never had a tank full of them or a moss pit molt myself so maybe I'm overreacting but if I ever had a crab molt in the moss pit, I personally would for sure ISO because IME it's just not a normal, safe, healthy molt. Different crabbers, different opinions.

THEN I've read that some owners put extra moss pits in there for molting and nobody else bats an eye???? Getting a lot of mixed answers...

I must have missed those posts. I probably would have chimed in with my opinion because I'm just like that. You will get some differing opinions here - anywhere for that matter. Some things come down to opinion and personal experience.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I completely trust Wodesorel's advice. She is incredibly knowledgeable. If she feels moss pit molts should be considered normal for very, very small crabs then I'll trust in that. It would still make me extremely nervous but I know she would never say anything here if she doubted it at all. I tend to think in terms of larger crabs since at this stage of my crabbing journey I have all medium-XL crabs. I would recommend ISOing any bigger crabs that pull a moss pit molt (by either blocking off the moss pit or carefully moving the whole thing to ISO). Though I don't think any harm would come from ISOing any crab in that situation, if like me it made you nervous.

[wodesorel]

And I trust Calla! She's the one who guided me when I first got hermits.

There are a lot of differing opinions on how to handle molts, and it also comes down to the crabs you have in the tank. Just because mine are exceptionally cool with it does not mean that someone elses crabs wouldn't take advantage of the situation.

My experience with moss pit molts - and I've had dozens over the years even though my crabs have always had deep substrate and there has had to have been a thousand successful substrate molts due to the number of hermits I have and how often they molt - is that though they are somewhat rare, they've never resulted in a dead crab. They go into the moss pit, and three or four days later they're out again perfectly molted. I've had crabs as big as mediums do this, in a moss pit with 20 other hermits (literally - there are always 21 hermits in my giant moss bin when I clean it up). They find a corner on the very bottom, molt, eat their exo, and the others never reacted to it. Three of the first year sightings of Firefly that I mentioned previously was when I found him molting in the moss pit every month for three months straight, and that was when I was keeping my tinies with crabs as big as Jumbos. It's just what he did, and I figured he knew best. It did seem like the same crabs preferred to moss pit molt every time, but then sometimes I'd get a one-off of a crab that had always molted underground when it was time for over 2 years suddenly decide to go in the moss pit instead. I think it has to do with distribution of energy. If you read the studies done on hermit crabs, you'll find that even when it comes to the shells they wear, their choices are based on the biggest benefit to the least amount of energy spent. I've always felt that by saving the time and energy on a substrate molt that it gives them some sort of boost, especially in a tiny crab whose only goal is to get as big as possible as fast as possible. All the digging and 'hibernating' before and after a molt has got to take a lot of reserves away from actually growing.

I would also really suggest that when reading about someone else's experience is to take into account if you're dealing with a healthy established crab, or one that is still new. When a new crab dies for any reason, PPS has to be the foremost thought. A death of a new crab should never be blamed on diet, or substrate, or moss, or anything else so long as the conditions are correct, because there are way too many factors that haven't been controlled after the crab's last molt. Once it's had a molt in captivity and appears healthy, then the hypotheses can start about what went wrong.

[hermieluv1]

Woodsorel, I just love reading your posts! No matter the subject, you are intelligent, knowledgeable, and concise. You make every subject interesting and easy to understand, even for the youngest among us! Thank you for being on this board!

[megmaholm]

That's interesting about moss pit molts! I had one teeny crab pull a molt in the moss shortly after I got him, and I isoed him to be safe. He was back in the main tank in less than a week, motoring around like nothing had ever happened.

[kornchaser]

I would also really suggest that when reading about someone else's experience is to take into account if you're dealing with a healthy established crab, or one that is still new. When a new crab dies for any reason, PPS has to be the foremost thought. A death of a new crab should never be blamed on diet, or substrate, or moss, or anything else so long as the conditions are correct, because there are way too many factors that haven't been controlled after the crab's last molt. Once it's had a molt in captivity and appears healthy, then the hypotheses can start about what went wrong.

All of my crabs in the 10g are new-newish 3 months to yesterday to be exact. Thanks so much. I really hope they are not dead though and just being really sneaky at night... But 10 weeks without a single peek? Ehh. I've lost too many to PPS and I really don't want that number to go up if I can help it.


Hermit mommy of 10 PP babies: Octavius Flemming, Poseidon, Junior, Matty Pumpkin, Turbo, Aries, Kaylee Frye, Pepper, Flower and Adrian Shephard.