Exotic species care

[Dragonfire1577]

I'm new here so hi! I keep and breed mostly new Caledonian geckos and have a few other reptiles and inverts too including 2 small purple pinchers that have made awesome pets, I've had a lot of fun experimenting and tweaking care until I got it perfect for molting, feeding and hopefully long term survival. So I made this thread to ask why are all the species besides PPs and Es regarded as more difficult to care for exotics? I understand some like strawberries have proven out more sensitive but I never find anecdotal evidence that things like C. purpureus or C. brevimanus are actually more sensitive. They just seem rarer so we automatically label them exotics and slap on a warning "not for beginners". Are all the exotics actually more sensitive or do we just notice casualties more than we do with the common species since there are far less people keeping them? Do they lack something purple pinchers have, I thought it could be low temperature tolerance maybe but it seems after doing some research many of them have similarly cold low temperatures in winter in the cooler parts of their ranges (C. purpureus seems to actually inhabit a larger area that reaches similarly cold temps to the coolest spot in purple pinchers range) or maybe they need something in their diet or a different ratio of sand to coir than the standard 5 to 1. I'm overall just asking if we can try and evaluate which species are harder and which are more sensitive more closely based on personal experiences.

[Dragonfire1577]

Also I'm considering maybe they go through a tougher import than purple pinchers being from further away and are initially more prone to losses but once established equally hardy I'm just not sure as I lack experience in this topic and can't find much for good evidence.

[wodesorel]

For the majority of keepers - experianced or not - the live for an average of two to three years. I can't tell you how many dozens of people I've seen start off with a collection of species, and once the exotics all die off in a few years they come back to rehome their PPs who are all still alive and kicking.

Either they are that sensitive, or we are missing something super important that only non-PP species require in captivity.

It's harder with hermits because while they are common pets they aren't well studied since it's easy and legal to grab more off a beach when needed. PPs are separated out farther on the family tree from the other species, so while they look the same, millions of years of evolution could have led to major changes that haven't been discovered or realized yet. That may be why they are able to handle captivity so much better.

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[Dragonfire1577]

What about Australians? I know we typically don't have access to them in the US but they are one of the few species to have been need in captivity and the babies grew to quite a good size after going onto land in the report I read. If they were missing something vital why would they grow from the size of a grain of rice to quarter size successfully. So I wonder if they would they also fall into the category of crabs that only make it a few years and die with all the non PP species or are they more along the lines of PPs for hardiness?

[Hermiearth]

I believe Ruggies are one of the hardier "exotics."


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[wodesorel]

One person (still one, right?) has done it with Aussies now, and more than once. Two German keepers have done it I believe, both violas if I'm not mistaken. (I'm a couple years rusty.) What they have done special is still unknown as people have copied them exactly without any success.

There are a few keepers here who have managed to have their exotics thrive for years and years, but again, what they report is the same as others who have failed.

Reproduction is not a sign of success with crabs, incidentally. Most keepers with a half decent setup, enough crabs, and ones that are old enough will find females in berry at some point.

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[wodesorel]

Hermieearth, not a lot if people talk about their rugs for some reason, they seem to be a chill species that doesn't cause problems. However, going by the adoptions again, they are no hardier than the other exotics.

JJAussieDude would know how hardy aussies are.

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[LadyJinglyJones]

Oooh... wodesorel, have you seen Renroc's breeding thread?

Edit - at the top of the page 23 of Renroc's aussie breeding success thread PinchersAndShells posted a rundown of breeding adventures.

For ease of access:

http://hermitcrabassociation.com/phpBB/ ... t#p1028256

[wodesorel]

Thank you LJJ! I had not! Glad to see there are others who are trying and are getting successes. [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND SMILING EYES]

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[Dragonfire1577]

So it seems purple pincher, violas, and blues have all been bred in captivity along with Australians so I'm wondering now how long will these babies live in captivity. Maybe the babies will break the 2 to 3 year trend being seen, do we know how many are still alive from any of the groups of babies?

[Dragonfire1577]

Hermieearth, not a lot if people talk about their rugs for some reason, they seem to be a chill species that doesn't cause problems. However, going by the adoptions again, they are no hardier than the other exotics.

JJAussieDude would know how hardy aussies are.

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Maybe mostly PPs are available for adoption because people with exotics are less willing to part with them since mostly experienced keepers keep exotics as newbies aren't as willing to search for them or pay more for them. This would likely mean the few people with exotics simply aren't adopting them out and the sheer number of PPs for adoption overshadows any exotics people get rid of.

[Hermiearth]

Well, there are certainly less exotics in people's care. Think about it, the typical person, who is the typical person adopting out there crabs goes to the pet store, buys a few, gets tired of them, and than that's that. I know that Daws has adopted many exotics herself, and I believe got butterflies has as well.


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[wodesorel]

All I can tell you is that after 8 years here at the HCA there are only a handful of exotics owners left who still have them. I've watched hundreds of people buy exotics - because they post like mad out of excited and the need to brag, and then come back two to three years later saying they all died, they're getting rid of their PPs because they aren't interested in crabs anymore. The old guard who started the "exotics are sensitive" movement observed the same for over 15 years before that, when exotics hit the scene in the 1990s. It was not a statement that was made without observation.

Think about it, EVERYONE wants exotic hermit crabs, and is willing to pay exorberant prices and risk having their money stolen and receiving dead crabs to get them. Why are they so hard to find? Because even the wholesalers will tell you they die in transit or in holding at such numbers it's not worth the investment. People who have talked to the owner of LHC have been told she received whole shipments of dead and dying crabs more than once over the years.

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[Dragonfire1577]

Hmm I wonder what the separating factor is then, maybe it's even a combination of things idk. I like the other crab species a lot too they are all fascinating but until we can figure out how to assure they can reach a ripe old age like PPs under our care I won't really consider them an option sadly since it doesn't seem ethical to keep an animal doomed to just scrape by and survive a few years and eventually die early.

[Dragonfire1577]

I'm still interested in Aussie and Ecuadorian lifespans in captivity though since Es are often treated as intermediate and not always considered exotics so I'm curious if they suffer the same 2 to 3 year captive lifespan and aussies because I'd like to find out more about how the CB babies are doing and their typical lifespan in captivity as I've heard a few times they are also pretty tough and may fall into a hardier range.