Newbie in distress with limp crab

Please post here if you are having a crab care emergency! Use a real subject and not just "HELP!"

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Kleinerhejhog
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Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by Kleinerhejhog » Sun May 24, 2015 1:04 am

So, let me start by saying I've had a bad day, worrying about my crabs, went and picked up my dog's ashes, later went to PetSmart for a new hygrometer and almost left in tears. I'll apologize in advance, this may be a long post.

My situation: We have gone to Florida every May for five years now. Every year I have threatened to bring home a hermit crab, because I found them fascinating. I did at least have the sense to know that I needed to do some research and get ready, rather than buying first and asking questions later. So this year when my husband asked me what I wanted for my birthday, I said this was the year for crabs, since with only one dog now, I don't have to worry about any more dog fights. So I spent a couple of hours reading things online, and figured I had a clue. I already had a ten gallon tank, and a screen top. I bought the Zoomed thermometer/hygrometer and went to Florida. At the beach I collected six gallon bags of sand from an out-of-the-way spot near our beach house.

Because I already knew the plastic carrier could only be temporary for transport, we waited until we were leaving Florida to pick them out. We got them last Saturday evening at an Alvin's Island in Panama City Beach. One at a time I picked out an active one and put it in the largest carrier they had. If it ventured out of its shell in a minute or two, I kept it, if not I traded for another one until I had three (all in natural shells, not painted, which gave me a smaller selection). Currently they are named One, Two, and Three, for the order in which I picked them. I used their spritz bottle to thoroughly dampen the sponge included in the kit. I bought some extra shells, a coconut shell hut, and a handful of sponges, since they charged four dollars less EACH than PetSmart for those. I put a little bit of the "food" that was included in a cavity in the carrier, and off we went. Since during our trip the AC on my Jeep had given up the ghost, we opted to drive through the night while it was cooler, rather than staying over someplace like we usually do. Along the way we got some distilled water to keep the sponge damp. We arrived home (near Plano, Texas) midmorning on Sunday, unloaded the bare minimum, parked the crabs in the spare room with a plastic bag draped over the top, and collapsed. I figured the little guys would be okay, both temp and humidity seemed to be staying in the 72-75 range.

Later on I went out and bought the All Living Things Crab Starter Kit, a small under tank heater, and a disk of compressed coconut soil from PetSmart, and a bottle of Freshwater Glub, a bottle of Seawater Glub, and a lav rock from Petco. I looked at their hermits (I had not seen any at PetSmart), almost all in painted shells, with about an inch and a half of substrate, and humidty of not quite 50%, and shook my head. I don't know much, but I know that's not right. I also got some dried cranberries from the organic food store. I went home and started by putting my sand in the oven, I knew I didn't have a lot of time, we had to unpack and repack for a business trip (for my husband) on Tuesday.

I started with the cypress bedding that came in the kit, and a bowl of freshwater and some "food pellets", also from the kit, and all of the shells. I put in the hermie hut and added a couple more sponges. The bowl meant for saltwater needed much deeper substrate than the cypress stuff provided, so that didn't go in right away. My sand was still warm by the time I was out of energy for the day, the numbers were both still near 75, and they all seemed to be moving around okay. I kept about three quarters of the top covered with a plastic bag.

In the morning I started mixing the sand with the cypress bedding, and mixing in Saltwater Glub. Naturally one bottle of that was not enough, I used the saltwater conditioner from the kit in the distilled water to make more. At about noon, I was told we were not leaving Tuesday, we were leaving Monday at three. So I just hoped four inches of sand would be enough, as I hadn't even messed with the coconut stuff yet, and Two started digging in immediately. We left the AC set at 74, and the vent in that room is closed, so it's usually warmer in there. I left the pet sitter a list of things to watch, and some critical dos and don'ts.

The business trip went well, and was a blast and a half for me; we spent two days aboard the E/V Nautilus in Galveston. If only I had studied to become an oceanographer...

On our way home on Thursday, the sitter sent a message saying she was concerned bout the crabbies, they seemed a bit cold and hadn't eaten much of anything. I said I had a heat pad, I'd get them toasty. I hadn't put it on already because I was concerned about sticking it on when no one was going to be in the house at all for t least six hours. I just hadn't counted on a cold front. The note she left on the kitchen table said that she'd turned the thermostat to 76, but she wasn't sure that would help with the cold front (it didn't), the little one had buried himself in the left corner and the other two were in the hut. What I found was One in the hut, the other two nowhere to be seen, the temperature just under 70 and the humidity closer to 60%. I slapped that UTH on there, dribbled more water on the sand, and covered the top almost entirely. There was a little bit of a funny smell, but not anything near what I would call fishy. That has since gone away, now all I can smell is wet sand.

Yesterday I still did not see Two or Three, however, someone did at least investigate the food, I had given them a couple cranberries and some boiled egg. One had not seemed to move, so I lifted up the hut and then him, he was kind of hanging out of his shell, clearly limp, and did not react at all. I put him back down and put the hut back with the door facing the wall of the tank. Now, ever since we got back I have pretty much been online reading everything I can find, and know I have done some things wrong, and am now trying to right them without stressing them out even more. Mostly, aiming for 80 degrees and 80% humidity. I went yesterday and got a red bulb and a clamp lamp which I have clamped to a floor lamp so I can move it around near the tank until I can find the right spot for it. The UTH simply was not bringing the temp up, it stayed about 72. I also got a glass top, and Instant Ocean for making all future saltwater. My husband ordered a temperature controller to help keep the temp up going forward. I had been sponge dampening and spritzing like crazy, and watching the humidity gauge go nowhere. Then we put a camera on them, so I could try to see what might be going on at night. I had to keep wiping the glass so the picture wasn't fuzzy (should have been a clue). Thanks to CrabVision, I learned that Three had been buried in the left corner.

This morning the humidity still hadn't moved. The temp was finally right around 80. I've been reading threads in the Emergency category all day, so I think the right thing to do is drop a pop bottle over One, hut and all if it fits. What scares me is that I don't know where Two is. CrabVison showed me Three has been hanging out in the corner where I last saw Two, under a large shell, and Two had not been coming out.

It did finally occur to me that something had to be wrong with the hygrometer, because the tank walls were dripping. There's no way 72% was right. Not wanting to take the time to test it the way I read on here somewhere, I went and bought a digital All Living Things one. While there, I felt really bad for the crab being given by a teacher to the little girl who was in PetSmart with her parents to buy stuff for it. Neither parent, especially the dad, expects the crab to live long. I HAD to butt in when the store employee told the mom that regular water was okay. I ended up handing her a bottle of Seachem Prime. I tried to tell her about needing saltwater too, but then she started not wanting to hear me, so I urged her to find this forum. And left the store despite the pouring rain, before I slapped somebody.

Turned out I was dead on about the first hygrometer not working; the new one said 99%. I propped the glass top just a little, to let the humidity drop, hopefully not too quickly. It's been about three hours, and now it says 90%.

Three is currently in the opposite corner from where he's been burying himself, sort of rolled back on his shell, if that makes sense. He didn't eat last night, and hasn't yet tonight, but last night he wandered and hung out for about five hours before digging in again. Tonight he wandered some, and climbed to the top of a cypress sliver I stood up in the sand the other day on a whim.

We don't drink much pop, and when we do it's from cans, so I didn't have any two liter bottles on hand. I got a couple today, and we've emptied one, and it has now been washed. What I am worried about is where Two might be. What if he's buried under the hut somewhere and I squash him with the bottle when I cover One up? Just don't know what to do there. The other thing I am really wondering about is the funny smell from the other day that went away; how long does the death smell last? Did One die long enough ago for it to go away? I am hoping he's surface molting, which I know not all survive either, but that's better than the alternative.

Much of this info is in my novel, but maybe y'all can see something else here I can work on.

1. What kind of substrate is used in your tank and how deep is it?
Beach sand, baked for at least an hour at 350, mixed with cypress bedding and wetted with saltwater. About four inches deep. Plan to add coconut fiber, and more sand if necessary to bring up to six inches. Not sure if I need to try to remove the cypress, or if I can add over the top of buried crabs.

2. Do you have gauges in the tank to measure temperature and humidity? If so, where are they located and what temperature and humidity do they usually read?
Digital thermometer and hygrometer, with probes currently dangling about two inches above the substrate, at the same end of the tank the red bulb in #3 shines on. Right now it's 82 degrees, 90% humidity.

3. Is a heat source used in the tank? If so, what?
Red reptile bulb in a clamp lamp, mounted where it can be moved closer or farther as needed.

4. What types of water are available (fresh or salt) and how is the water treated (what brands of dechlorinator or salt mix and what ratio is used to mix it)?
Current saltwater is made from distilled water and All Living Things Saltwater conditioner, 10ml in a 16 ounce bottle. Have Instant Ocean, will switch to that as soon as I figure how to mix small amounts. Freshwater is tap water treated with Seachem Prime, 0.1ml per gallon. This is the same thing I use in my freshwater aquarium.

5. What kinds of food do you feed and how often is it replaced?
All Living Things Food Pellets, Crab Food from Florida Marine Research, both of which I plan to phase out. Sun dried baby shrimp from Tetra, Fluker's Freeze Dried Mealworms. Broccoli, boiled egg, egg shell, dried cranberries, cilantro. Some combination of two or three of each of these, never the same two days in a row. I have, but have not yet offered, carrots and cucumbers. Putting it in at night, taking it out in the morning, but planning to add some food bowls so some things can stay. I get hungry in the middle of my night, what's to say they couldn't get hungry in the middle of their night.

6. How long have you had the crab and what species is it, if known?
One week, I believe all three are purple pinchers.

7. Has your crab molted, and how long ago did it happen?
No.

8. What type of housing are the crabs kept in, what size is it and what kind of lid is on the housing?
Ten gallon aquarium, which started with a screen lid, but now has a glass top.

9. How many crabs are in the tank and about how large are they?
Three. Not sure how to describe how large they are; the one I can see right now is in a shell about an inch long, of the other two, one is a little bit larger, and the other is smaller.

10. How many extra shells are usually kept in the tank, if any?
Right now there are seven extra. Getting more is high on my to-do list.

11. Have there been any fumes or chemicals near the crabitat recently?
No.

12. How often do you clean the tank and how?
So far all I have done is wipe the glass and remove all uneaten food.

13. Are sponges used in the water dish? If so, how are they cleaned?
There were until I found that the humidity is too high. I took them out, rinsed them in very hot tap water, then rinsed them four or five times in dechlorinated water. When they are dry I will nuke them.

14. Has anything new been added to your crabitat recently?
Everything. :(

15. Is there any other information you would like to share that might be helpful (anything that is regularly part of your crab care, playtime, bathing, etc.)?
I have messed with them as little as possible, only what's been necessary to get the crabitat set up and them into it.

16. Please describe the emergency situation in detail.
See above.

Thank you for taking the time to read all this. I know I'm likely in for a lot of "wait and see what happens", but if there is anything that can help, I'd sure like to know what it is.

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soilentgringa
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Re: Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by soilentgringa » Sun May 24, 2015 2:02 am

Hi and welcome to HCA. I am going to link you below to some very helpful guidesheets, but first I want to say you're in the right place.
You can very gently add sub while your crabs are buried. It is always a good idea to calibrate your hygrometer when new or if it is "shocked" or dropped. Lamps are fine as well as UTH's mounted on the side above the substrate line. Hermit crabs do need a day/night cycle so if they are in a dark spot in the home they will need a day light. This can be just a normal bulb. Most of us just mix the saltwater and dechlorinated water by the gallon, it is easier to do water changes or rinse shells etc. if it's on hand. 1/2C IO to 1 gal. Dechlorinated H20. No need to phase out the pellets just jump right in to offering plenty of good protein and calcium sources. Crabs are scavengers by nature and sometimes like food that is on the verge of spoiling so you can leave some things for a day or three as long as it's not moldy and fruit flies aren't an issue. Sponges aren't necessary and harbor bacteria so it is best to ditch them. Pools deep enough for your crab to submerge in and moss pits can help boost humidity, especially with an airstone in the pool to make a bubbler. Your crabs still need time to destress and will probably be buried for a bit. That is okay. Just make sure they have fresh water and maybe leave out a dry food mix. It is not necessary to ISO a crab that is having a normal, healthy molt. It is best to let them follow their instincts and crab on. Surface molts are emergent situations but normal burying and digging aren't. 10 gallons for 3 small crabs is fine for now but if you are going to add more, you will want to upgrade and get a larger tank. I will link some guides now. Welcome to the addiction that is hermit crabs!

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wodesorel
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Re: Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by wodesorel » Sun May 24, 2015 2:26 am

I am so sorry about your dog! I've had days like that. They're not easy, and we'll do what we can to help get things right with the crabs at least. :)

SG covered care, but as far as the limp crabby, don't use a pop bottle unless you know where that third crab is. If he's down and molting there's a chance you could trap him or even cut into him. There's a chance you may have caught the limp guy at the start of a molt, or that what you saw was hanging exoskeleton, but there's a good chance they he passed away.

I'm going to link you to the article index, as that lays out everything we have in one page: http://hermitcrabassociation.com/pages/

Especially read the section on Post Purchase Syndrome - when conditions are decent, it's almost always damage that had been done prior to purchase that cause them to pass, not something that we've done wrong.

I also wanted to mention that Cyprus bedding will mold in high humidity situations. I use it for my snakes (low humidity) so I thought it would be great for my tropical roach containers (hermit level humidity) when mixed with cocofiber, but the entire substrate went green and fuzzy. Keep a close eye on it!
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Kleinerhejhog
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Re: Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by Kleinerhejhog » Sun May 24, 2015 11:06 pm

Thank you both. It helps to know I may at least be on the right track.

My husband has renamed my hermits, so right now they are One of Three, Two of Three, and Three of Three.

I have read every single care sheet (except the breed specific ones that aren't PP's) at least once. I have been online for hours and hours over the past few days, reading posts in the Emergency and Molting categories. There's still a couple things I am not sure on. How long does the death smell stay around? My nose works poorly, but I would not have called the smell that was there when we got home on Thursday fishy, or even bad, just funny. But it went away, was gone by Friday morning. Now all I can smell is damp sand. But, One of Three, the limp one in the hut, hadn't moved, at least up to the point I turned the door of the hut to the wall. I was probably bad last night, and while Three of Three was out wandering, I took a peek under the big shell Three of Three has been hiding under, and saw the tip of Two of Three's shell. I left the big shell where it was, and then went ahead and dropped the pop bottle over the hut where One of Three is at. I didn't even look under the hut to see if One of Three had moved or anything, and now I'm really wondering, how will I know if he's okay or not, without picking everything up again. The hut is almost as big as the bottle, and I don't think there's enough room for him to get out the door. I thought it best to leave the hut over him, since they're supposed to be in the dark during molt; but also, it's not perfectly dark, light gets in through the hut door.

Reviewing CrabVision video, Three of Three came out this morning and ate, cilantro for sure. He sat in the food dish for over half an hour. Two of Three has not come up in at least two nights. I'm less concerned about him, being buried at least, except that Three of Three sits on top of him, and the substrate really isn't deep enough yet. Should I stick a bottle on him the next time Three of Three goes for a walk? If the sand was deeper, and I could see the tip of his shell like that, I would guess he might just be destressing. Just don't know what the right answer is, or even if there is one.

In regards to daylight, the tank is in a room with an uncovered window, but in a corner that does not get any direct sunlight. Is that sufficient, or should I put a daylight bulb on a timer near the tank?

I am trying to just be patient and not meddle, and may just be overthinking things. But, I figure if I ask these questions, there may be a thing or two I can do.


I am seeing a guy tomorrow about larger tanks; if I do get one from him maybe setting that up will keep me occupied. I'll post about that in Crabitat Conditions, as I'm sure I'll have lots more questions that hopefully won't be emergencies...

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Re: Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by wodesorel » Mon May 25, 2015 1:49 am

Someone is a Voyager fan! :lol: (Unless there's something else out there that's similar that I don't know about...)

Sometimes there isn't a death smell, sometimes it passes quickly. It can't be relied on to make the call. You may have just been smelling their dinner.

I personally would check on One of Three after one week. It's not very stressful for them to be peaked in on, and you'll know one way or the other by then. If he was limp when you put him there, then he would have molted in the next few hours and he'll be mostly done with his exo in a week's time. And if not, you're not going to have to sit around and wonder any longer.

How big is Two of Three compared to the depth of substrate? Could he get all the way under if he wanted?

A Daylight bulb might help them be a bit more regular in their activities. It's not a necessary item, but if you can do it you're likely to see a difference over time.

We ALL overthought things when we bought an easy pet and realized we were lied to. Don't worry about it. :) Almost all of us have been where you are now!
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Re: Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by Kleinerhejhog » Mon May 25, 2015 4:10 pm

Yep, it's a Voyager reference, lol... My dad thought I should name them Huey, Dewey, and Louie, but I think the Borg designations are more likely to stick.

Two of Three might be down as far as he can get. I think the sand has settled a little since i put it in there, because now it looks like it's closer to three inches, which I know is no where deep enough. So far, as best I can tell, Three of Three isn't bothering him, just sitting on him. I was monitoring CrabVision yesterday every little while, and checking on the tank myself periodically, but as of 4am Three of Three had not come out. He was only in a divot under the big shell, so I could see his feelers wiggling about. Today we've been out, went and bought two tanks with a pile of turtle equipment from a semi-estate sale (sort of long story), but every time i checked, Three of Three was sitting there motionless. I have not had a chance yet to review the overnight CrabVision video, but the food looks untouched, so I started to get panicky (ugh, speaking of panicky, it's thundering and Eowyn (yes, LotR) wants to be in my lap. Would be less of a big deal except she's a German Shepherd...) I started to move the lid so I could take a picture, and he did move. Big PHEW! I took a picture anyway, and if i can figure out how, I'll post it.

I am still reading. I think my husband thinks I'm a little nuts. Every time he sees me I've got this iPad, and he just says, 'still crabbing? Okay.' I knew when I started that it was more complicated than keeping them in kritter carriers, but I kinda didn't count on this learning curve. The good news is I am not losing heart, just really hoping any of this group make it, and vowing the next group will have it better.


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Re: Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by Kleinerhejhog » Mon May 25, 2015 10:53 pm

Omigosh both Three of Three and Two of Three are up right now! Very happy crab mama! :clap:

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Re: Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by Breeezy » Tue May 26, 2015 10:27 am

It seems like everyone has covered any advice I'm able to offer here hehe! Great members on this forum! I just wanted to pop in and wish you the best of luck with your new crabbies. You've come to the right place and you're doing a great job at being proactive to give your crabs the best care they can get! :)
4 Purple Pinchers (Hodor, Spree, Rosie, Leonardo, and Lucy), 1 Strawberry (Denver), 4 Ecuadorians (Dexter, Leeloo, Ghost, and Dr. Zoidberg)
1 Pembroke Welsh Corgi (Thorin)

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Re: Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by wodesorel » Tue May 26, 2015 1:12 pm

Congrats!

I think with any new pet there's a flurry of excitement and an initial learning curve. No one will ever look at you funny for bringing your new puppy everywhere because you don't want to leave it home alone, or calling the vet about every little thing. But research and worry about a crab and suddenly you're a weirdo. :hlol:

The good news is that it will become second nature pretty quickly. Within a few months most new owners get comfortable enough where we don't see much of them anymore. After the first molt everything starts getting much much easier. :)
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Re: Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by Kleinerhejhog » Tue May 26, 2015 5:45 pm

Thanks, guys. I promise if this ever gets to be 'old hat,' I'll still pop in every once in a while just to say hi, lol. Don't see that happening any time soon, though, as there are still about seven million and nine questions rolling around in my head...


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Re: Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by Kleinerhejhog » Sun May 31, 2015 12:46 pm

I guess it's official, One of One has not moved since last week. :cry: Now what do I do with him?

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KellyCrabbieLove
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Re: Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by KellyCrabbieLove » Sun May 31, 2015 1:06 pm

3 options, bury him, throw him in the trash or take him back to the store. Always keep the shell and boil it so the others can use it.
#1 rule of crabbing - crabs are weird.
#2 rule of crabbing - see above


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Re: Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by Kleinerhejhog » Sun May 31, 2015 2:57 pm

The store is in Florida, so that's not really an option. Guess it'll be back yard burial.

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Re: Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by KellyCrabbieLove » Sun May 31, 2015 5:22 pm

I'm sorry for your loss
#1 rule of crabbing - crabs are weird.
#2 rule of crabbing - see above

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Re: Newbie in distress with limp crab

Post by wodesorel » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:02 pm

I'm so sorry.
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