New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Older topics that are in the process of being sorted and moved into the appropriate Archived sections below.
User avatar

DragonsFly
Posts: 1005
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:27 pm
Location: Florida

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by DragonsFly » Mon May 30, 2016 8:11 am

hprmom wrote:@Dragonsfly, that's brilliant! I only have 5 crabs, will they really get it all mixed up fairly quickly? I'm almost halfway up now, doing it like @Jennifer711983. Well, actually we're trying to do a little sand art (kind of a parfait, but with everything already mixed) so we're doing a few batches of 5:1 and then a couple of 1:1 for a dark "stripe" (I think it will be fun to watch the crabs re-arrange it). I have a 7-year old helper so there's a little free labor, but you know, he gets distracted actually building sandcastles in the bucket and then the job goes really s-l-o-w-l-y!

If just 5 crabs really will mix it up, we might switch over to your parfait method to finish filling the tank tomorrow. I'm just, you know, new-crabber paranoid about not personally testing the mixture for consistency as I go!

I also think I'm going to try a small ee "pit" on the forest side of the tank, I'm thinking just dig a pit a little deeper than a water pool and fill it with ee (I realize the crabs will mix it in, just curious to see if they prefer it). When using straight ee, does it need to be at any particular consistency, or just the moisture from expanding the brick is fine?

Between tomorrow and the Monday holiday, hoping to have this build done in a couple of days!
I have had only five or six (now we have four or five--one sadly died recently, after coming up from molt shell-less for some reason; Major Tom the jumbo has been down for about a year now, so I'll know the exact number if and when he resurfaces) in the 90g; they churn it together over time. The idea is to get the EE to a good "sand castle-y" consistency (usually it's about right, from expanding the bricks, if that is how you get your EE), then lay a layer of EE, then sprinkle some sand over it. If you are trying for a 5 to 1 mix, you can use a big cup and put in five cups of EE, then sprinkle one cup of dry sand over that, then repeat. Every few inches, take a stick (or your finger--I keep a little dowel near the tank that is about the width of my ring finger; I need the longer stick because the substrate is much deeper than I can "poke" with just my finger, once it is at the depth necessary) and poke it down in the substrate; if the hole stays well-formed, you've got good consistency. If it seems too crumbly, just spritz a little water over it to add a bit of moisture. Less is better, since you can always add more water, but removing it is more problematic.

I like to give them an all-EE "jungle end" as well as an all-sand "beach end"--after two years, they have mixed them somewhat, and one in particular likes to dig down for the day in the beach end, but I'm pretty sure they all molt in the all-EE end or the mostly-EE middle of the tank. So at least mine do seem to prefer the EE to the sand, at least in terms of molting substrate.

When I stirred the jungle end recently, I did add a little bit of sand to even the formerly all-EE end; mostly because I don't know why the one crab came up shell-less (I found his shell in one of the all-EE corners), so I'm trying adding sand to see if that helps with whatever mysterious issue caused him to abandon his shell underground. So now, there's at least some sand in all areas of the tank; but that end is still pretty much "all EE."

Make sure you allow a good amount of time for the whole tank (substrate included, which takes the longest) to balance out for temp and humidity before you add any crabs). Best wishes!


EDIT: hang on, I think you must be going for a 5 part SAND to 1 part EE mix? That's different, then. Then I would use the sand-layering method I mentioned for sand-only parts of the tank--layer in your "5 parts" of sand dry, spritz it with some water, wait a bit to let that settle in to sand castle consistency, then layer in your "1 part" of EE (already moistened), then repeat. Works the same way, but you do have to spritz and wait and then check the sand, whereas if you have mostly moist EE and only some sand, the moistened EE will usually "share" its moisture with the sand, and you can just check as you go and the process goes more quickly. Same "parfait" idea though; just a little fussier time-wise with mostly (or all) sand. But yeah, the crabs will mix it up for you eventually.

I can't really say whether that "eventually" will be "fairly quickly," because that depends how active and "diggy" your bunch are, but one thing about crabs is, "quickly" doesn't really apply to them. These are animals that live in a VERY different notion of time than we do--they regularly spend months in pitch darkness not moving at all--so a few days, or weeks, or even months simply do not mean to them what they mean to us, at all. One thing you can say about crabs and crabbing--they are great teachers of the nearly-lost virtue of patience, if we are willing to learn. :)

Then again, if your kid is having fun mixing the water in with the sand and making sand castles, then let HIM do it! His springy tendons are unlikely to be endangered by playing in the sand. And again, time with your kid is too precious to rush anything. Trust me. Before you know it, the only thing he'll want from you is the car keys. Enjoy his "dawdling" with you while it lasts! Best wishes!
--{}: Dragons Fly Farm --{}:
Resident PP's:"Major Tom" & "Billie Jean"

“An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered.”
― G.K. Chesterton

User avatar

Topic author
hprmom
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by hprmom » Tue May 31, 2016 2:09 am

soilentgringa wrote:I love the idea of a fairy garden! We were just at North Haven Gardens in Dallas last week and their display fairy gardens are just too cute.
They're so delightful and enchanting, which I suppose is the point! Well, we installed a tiny door and window into the trunk of our main cork "tree" going into the tank, but that is pretty much the extent of the fairy-ness of our garden end! My son loved all the miniatures at Michael's and had tons of ideas, but I think I got overwhelmed. Maybe later we will add a little stone path from the door to the pond (fw pool), or other hermit touches (my son decided that instead of a fairy it should be a hermit--"a guy who lives in the forest and helps people"--a definition he derived from listening to King Arthur stories). Right now I am just ready for this build to be DONE, lol!

User avatar

Topic author
hprmom
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by hprmom » Tue May 31, 2016 2:30 am

DragonsFly wrote: I keep a little dowel near the tank that is about the width of my ring finger; I need the longer stick because the substrate is much deeper than I can "poke" with just my finger, once it is at the depth necessary)
Okay, I need a stick! I use my finger in the smaller tanks, but hadn't thought about checking much farther below the surface. I guess I assumed if I was good three inches down, everything below should be wet enough. Is that *not* usually the case?
DragonsFly wrote: I like to give them an all-EE "jungle end" as well as an all-sand "beach end"--after two years, they have mixed them somewhat, and one in particular likes to dig down for the day in the beach end, but I'm pretty sure they all molt in the all-EE end or the mostly-EE middle of the tank. So at least mine do seem to prefer the EE to the sand, at least in terms of molting substrate.
I noticed earlier you mentioned all EE and all sand areas, which gave me "permission" to experiment with different ratios for my "sand art". I wound up using mostly 5:1 sand:ee, but have layers of 1:1, 2:1, and 7:1, realizing they are all going to get mixed up eventually. The two in my 10g molted in 5:1 and the three in my 20g molted in what appears to be 1:1 (the tank came to me full of sub), so for my peace of mind I wanted some sand in all the mix.
DragonsFly wrote: EDIT: hang on, I think you must be going for a 5 part SAND to 1 part EE mix?
Yes, LOL, I'm glad I read through to your edit!
DragonsFly wrote: Then again, if your kid is having fun mixing the water in with the sand and making sand castles, then let HIM do it! His springy tendons are unlikely to be endangered by playing in the sand. And again, time with your kid is too precious to rush anything. Trust me. Before you know it, the only thing he'll want from you is the car keys. Enjoy his "dawdling" with you while it lasts! Best wishes!
Right? It's tough some days when a 15 minute activity takes two hours and I had several things on the agenda for the day, though! Tonight he delayed his bedtime by sorting the sea shells and glass pebbles for the msw pool, by color, ONE BY ONE. I couldn't very well rush him since I had given him the job in the first place! So I put the tea kettle on. Thanks for the encouragement. :)

User avatar

Topic author
hprmom
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by hprmom » Tue May 31, 2016 2:38 am

So, practical consideration I hadn't thought of when I chose water containers and designed pools: how to get them in and out for refilling and cleaning! As I'm placing the decor I'm realizing I'm going to have to work around the branches, foliage, etc. to get the containers in and out, without tipping or spilling them. These pools are much bigger than my current water dishes, so a spill would have much bigger consequences! I notice some of you have your pools under ledges, under moss pits, behind logs, etc. Any tips? I'm already doing the thing where you bury one container and nest a second one on top.

Right now I have pool sub (pebbles) and decor loose instead of glued onto the pool, thinking it will be easier for cleaning. I guess I'll find out!

User avatar

soilentgringa
Posts: 4352
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:18 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by soilentgringa » Tue May 31, 2016 2:51 am

hprmom wrote:So, practical consideration I hadn't thought of when I chose water containers and designed pools: how to get them in and out for refilling and cleaning! As I'm placing the decor I'm realizing I'm going to have to work around the branches, foliage, etc. to get the containers in and out, without tipping or spilling them. These pools are much bigger than my current water dishes, so a spill would have much bigger consequences! I notice some of you have your pools under ledges, under moss pits, behind logs, etc. Any tips? I'm already doing the thing where you bury one container and nest a second one on top.

Right now I have pool sub (pebbles) and decor loose instead of glued onto the pool, thinking it will be easier for cleaning. I guess I'll find out!
For ease of cleaning, I double my pools. I put a couple of shells in between so there isn't any suction or sticking when lifted.
Image

User avatar

Topic author
hprmom
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by hprmom » Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:25 pm

Thanks, @soilentgringa.

Well, I think we're just about ready for the Big Move. I thought this day would never come; every weekend it seemed like some new problem or delay cropped up, or else Life threw us a curve ball unrelated to the hermit crabs.

We were going to move them over the weekend, but then discovered that the background had warped and peeled away from the tank, taking the UTH with it (the UTH had only been taped to the background, now both are secured to the glass). I think the foam core my husband taped over the UTH caused it to heat up and warp the background; he's not convinced there's a causal relationship. In any case, the UTH "as-is" gets us to EXACTLY 80 degrees, which is 5 degrees above room temp. I was hoping we'd get a bigger range. So we have about six months before Florida "winter" to come up with a different solution for raising the tank temp.

Then I realized that the rocks I glued to the heavy end of my grapevine weren't enough to keep it from tipping over under a crab's weight. The tiny air pump I ordered was defective and so was its replacement (the third one was the charm!). The fan had too much buzzing vibration (back to the drawing board on that one). The command picture strips that secured the moss pit didn't work on the corner shelf. Etc., etc.! But the moss pit is SOLID, so much for it being removable, LOL.

And now, temps and humidity have been stable for several days in the lapses between adding decor. All that's left is to steal the shell shop and coco hut out of the other two tanks and install them into the 65g (I waited till the last minute so the crabs wouldn't freak out). Then pray that Digger, who has been AWOL for a couple of weeks, comes back up! He finished molting just a few weeks ago, so I'm hoping he'll surface for some smelly sardines.

Here goes nothing!

User avatar

KayedeeLove<3
Posts: 1267
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 10:34 pm

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by KayedeeLove<3 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:10 am

How was the turn out :)

Sent from my LGMS345 using Tapatalk

User avatar

DragonsFly
Posts: 1005
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:27 pm
Location: Florida

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by DragonsFly » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:04 pm

hprmom wrote:
DragonsFly wrote: I keep a little dowel near the tank that is about the width of my ring finger; I need the longer stick because the substrate is much deeper than I can "poke" with just my finger, once it is at the depth necessary)
Okay, I need a stick! I use my finger in the smaller tanks, but hadn't thought about checking much farther below the surface. I guess I assumed if I was good three inches down, everything below should be wet enough. Is that *not* usually the case?
Yes, if it is moist enough three inches down, it is almost certainly MOIST ENOUGH further down. The problem is that it could be TOO MOIST--i.e., there could be water pooling at the bottom, which could encourage bacterial blooms, and if it is more than just pooling right at the bottom, could possibly endanger molters (by drowning). So it is good to be able to check all the way down to the bottom of the tank, to make sure that it is moist enough (the sides of the hole maintain their shape after removing the stick), but there is no water pooling at the bottom.
--{}: Dragons Fly Farm --{}:
Resident PP's:"Major Tom" & "Billie Jean"

“An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered.”
― G.K. Chesterton

User avatar

Topic author
hprmom
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by hprmom » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:31 pm

DragonsFly wrote: Yes, if it is moist enough three inches down, it is almost certainly MOIST ENOUGH further down. The problem is that it could be TOO MOIST--i.e., there could be water pooling at the bottom, which could encourage bacterial blooms, and if it is more than just pooling right at the bottom, could possibly endanger molters (by drowning). So it is good to be able to check all the way down to the bottom of the tank, to make sure that it is moist enough (the sides of the hole maintain their shape after removing the stick), but there is no water pooling at the bottom.
AHHHHH now I get it! I've been so new-crabber focussed on keeping everything wet (humidity up), I hadn't given a lot of thought to the opposite possibility. Everything looks good in the new tank, and I've got a piece of bamboo I can take "core samples" to the bottom with. One thing that's new to me is heavy condensation on one side of the tank. It's the short end of the garden, behind a cork tree in an area I piled with straight ee, where I can't reach to dry it. I figure the ee is holding a lot of moisture, is it likely to even out over time, or is that much condensation likely to cause a serious issue? Hopefully the fan will help when I get it figured out, but I'm not sure the fan will reach behind there.

I've been avidly reading and pinning your posts on fountains, bubblers, fans, and plants, thank you for being so thorough!

User avatar

Topic author
hprmom
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by hprmom » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:46 pm

KayedeeLove<3 wrote:How was the turn out :)
Four out of five surfaced for the move, thanks for asking! Digger is still AWOL. I really hope he comes up soon, I'd hate for him to come up while we're out of town next week and there isn't someone here to give him good healing foods, keep an eye on him, and move him to the new tank. I'm just really surprised he went down so soon after molting. I smoothed out the sub so I'd notice if there are any new piles or holes, but I'm not hearing any noises from his tank at all. I hope he's okay...

The four who moved easily survived their "swim test". Junior surprised us all by taking a good 10 minutes to come out, not in any distress, just walking around the bottom of the pool and then hanging out on the ramp "meditating" with two feet in the water. He's one of our biggest, and has not been long in captivity so perhaps it's been a long time since he was able to submerge for a good soak. We had to interrupt his reverie to put the last crab in, he wouldn't vacate the pool!

They've been in four days now and there are a couple of spots they haven't checked out yet, so I'm going to be re-evaluating access to the upper levels, etc. Conditions are stable. I'm experimenting with LED fixtures, and shaking out the new routine (mainly how to get around all the decor to change water, food, etc.). As for the crabs themselves, after a bit of posturing and a couple of scares the first night they are mostly puppy-piling to sleep in the big tree together, so I guess they worked out their pecking order and I don't have to worry. :)

We've been taking lots of pics, eventually I'll comb through everything and share some in the pictures forum. :)

User avatar

Topic author
hprmom
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by hprmom » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:55 pm

New question: fishnet! My guys don't seem to enjoy climbing them, they always look like they are getting tangled up (but they always manage to get out). I didn't have this problem in my 20g, with a hand-crocheted net that was anchored by all four corners and a point in-between. In the new tank, I just have the fishnet from Michael's hanging from corner guards and draped from climbing structures. Should I anchor the bottom points to make the nets taut? Or did they like my old net because it was made from jute thicker than the new fishnet (more to grab)?

User avatar

aussieJJDude
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 5010
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by aussieJJDude » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:31 pm

Maybe experiment? Like you said, it could either of the two things. Or maybe look into how it was placed, was the net more like a level for them in the 20g and now its like a ladder. Could it be that in the 20g they used it to access the level, favourite hiding/climbing places? Maybe the the 65g, its not really "serving" them purpose and they prefer taking other methods to get to the levels....
But then again, its crabs... who knows? :roll:
|| Avid Aquarist Addict (2007) || Crazy Crabbing Connoisseur (2012) || Amateur Aroid Admirer (2014) ||

I strive to make HCA a welcoming space for all
Infrequently on due to studies, on a little more on in FB group

User avatar

Topic author
hprmom
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by hprmom » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:46 pm

aussieJJDude wrote:Maybe experiment? Like you said, it could either of the two things. Or maybe look into how it was placed, was the net more like a level for them in the 20g and now its like a ladder. Could it be that in the 20g they used it to access the level, favourite hiding/climbing places? Maybe the the 65g, its not really "serving" them purpose and they prefer taking other methods to get to the levels....
But then again, its crabs... who knows? :roll:
Because *crabs are weird*, right? :lol:

Here's how my main net was placed in the 20g: It's a rectangle, with two corners on the short end zip-tied to the moss pit. Then hooked to the wall on the upper side center and corner; and the fourth corner just hung loose over a cholla teepee.
Image
It was somewhat taut, and all the little chain stitches maybe made it more grippy. The crabs would climb the cholla to get to the net, and then traverse the net to reach either the moss pit or the corner shelf shell shop (or more frequently, the screen top). Tommy (on top of the cholla in this pic) liked to nap with a leg hooked over the top of the net. He also somehow managed to use the two strands of vine in the left corner of the tank to get up to the moss pit!

In the new tank, the fishnet is just draped everywhere to connect different areas/climbing structures. So it's only zip-tied at the top, and loose at the bottom. I think every upper level structure can be reached without using the fishnet, but I'm going to re-evaluate and maybe make some more solid ways to access a couple of areas that can only be reached by creative acrobatics (the crabs have already invented at least one way to reach the shell shop that I did not plan!).

My main concern is that they keep trying to fit themselves through a single square hole in the fishnet. This morning Hermie got his head, pincers and a couple of legs through a single hole and tried to walk through it so far that the strand was like a belt around his body. I was concerned that if he didn't figure out he needed to back out, he might vacate his shell and get tangled trying to escape the net. Eventually he figured it out. My husband suggested clipping the bottom ends of the net (like we do to plastic six-pack can holders when we throw them out), so at least they won't try to walk through them on the ground level.

Short answer, I'll experiment. :)

User avatar

aussieJJDude
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 5010
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by aussieJJDude » Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:42 am

hprmom wrote:Because *crabs are weird*, right? :lol:
You said it, not me! :whistle::

It also sounds like they use to like how taunt it was before and probably the smaller holes. Would it be work "double layering" it and zip tieing it in key places so it doesn't fall apart?

I guess you can always let them get use to it, crabs have the habit of being picky and take a while to get use to things.
|| Avid Aquarist Addict (2007) || Crazy Crabbing Connoisseur (2012) || Amateur Aroid Admirer (2014) ||

I strive to make HCA a welcoming space for all
Infrequently on due to studies, on a little more on in FB group

User avatar

KayedeeLove<3
Posts: 1267
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 10:34 pm

Re: New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

Post by KayedeeLove<3 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:36 am

hprmom wrote:
KayedeeLove<3 wrote:How was the turn out :)
Four out of five surfaced for the move, thanks for asking! Digger is still AWOL. I really hope he comes up soon, I'd hate for him to come up while we're out of town next week and there isn't someone here to give him good healing foods, keep an eye on him, and move him to the new tank. I'm just really surprised he went down so soon after molting. I smoothed out the sub so I'd notice if there are any new piles or holes, but I'm not hearing any noises from his tank at all. I hope he's okay...

The four who moved easily survived their "swim test". Junior surprised us all by taking a good 10 minutes to come out, not in any distress, just walking around the bottom of the pool and then hanging out on the ramp "meditating" with two feet in the water. He's one of our biggest, and has not been long in captivity so perhaps it's been a long time since he was able to submerge for a good soak. We had to interrupt his reverie to put the last crab in, he wouldn't vacate the pool!

They've been in four days now and there are a couple of spots they haven't checked out yet, so I'm going to be re-evaluating access to the upper levels, etc. Conditions are stable. I'm experimenting with LED fixtures, and shaking out the new routine (mainly how to get around all the decor to change water, food, etc.). As for the crabs themselves, after a bit of posturing and a couple of scares the first night they are mostly puppy-piling to sleep in the big tree together, so I guess they worked out their pecking order and I don't have to worry. :)

We've been taking lots of pics, eventually I'll comb through everything and share some in the pictures forum. :)
YaY cannot WAIT for pics!!!
Im setting up my 55 and things have gone pretty smoothly my molters came up just in time! So tonight is the big push [FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH]
Hope mine love the pools as much as yours do!!!

Sent from my LGMS345 using Tapatalk

Locked