Deformities using one substrate?

[pearl29mi]

There is a lot of controversy in the instagram hermit crab community on whether or not using one substrate like just eco earth or just sand leads to deformities when they molt. Most say that using on substrate leads to deformities, I say it does not. Can anyone clear it up to me if it does/does not. And if it does, why?

[CallaLily]

It does not. However, any substrate that's allowed to dry out too much (or get too wet) can cause problems.

Play sand is great and cheap, but adding in some cocofiber will help keep moisture and makes for more stable tunnels.

Straight cocofiber is perfectly safe too but is harder to keep the right consistency and doesn't tunnel as well. (my opinion)

I use mostly playsand with some cocofiber mixed in with good results. I've also used straight play sand with good results. My only experience with staight cocofiber (my mother's old crabitat - she has fibromyalgia so I used to help her with cleaning) resulted in too wet, stinky substrate every time. You'll find varying opinions on what's best.

EDIT: I came back to add that, IME, too shallow/sloping substrate or overcrowded conditions do lead to disturbed molters who can resurface with deformities too (as well as too dry/wet). I wonder if that's what the issue is for these crabbers...

[landlubber]

Sometimes people come up with ideas about crabbing that seem sound if one follows a certain logic, but what is logical is not always true. I don't even know what the logic is as to why one kind of substrate would cause deformities. What is it that people think crabs molt in while in the wild, a perfect 5/1 sand EE ratio?

What kind of molt deformities are they talking about anyway-because they may have different causes. A crab that gets stuck as it's shedding my first thoughts as to cause would be poor nutrition if conditions are good. These kinds of molt deformities cause crabs to lose limbs, have old exo stuck on new exo, or causes limbs to be twisted as the crab tries to free itself from the exo with difficulty. Things like eye deformities may be related more to exposure to toxins, such as fluoride in the water.

Plus, I have never found any studies or any kind on how crabs molt in the wild. It could be that losses through molts is almost as common in their natural habitat as it is in our tanks for all I know........

[purpleperson]

In all honesty, I think you should take a lot of what the Instagram crab community claims with a grain of salt. Sure, there are some accounts that really know what they are doing and have good info (some are even members here) but a lot of them are just making stuff us as they go. About a month ago one of the accounts I follow was claiming that there were 24 or so new crab sub species discovered in a very short period of time, but they could not back up their facts. So just watch for some of the claims like this were they can't tell you why, or where their information came from.


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[pearl29mi]

In all honesty, I think you should take a lot of what the Instagram crab community claims with a grain of salt. Sure, there are some accounts that really know what they are doing and have good info (some are even members here) but a lot of them are just making stuff us as they go.

I agree, whenever I have a question I com here because I know everyone has their facts right almost all the time. Some people from instagram crab community also can be very harsh and rude. Everybody has to do it one way or it's wrong on there.

[wodesorel]

I've done it all three ways, and with different mixtures - never found any difference in the amount of perfect molts, no matter the substrate. Bad molts happen, new crabs are more likely to die, and troublemakers exist. It's often easier to attribute something bad to something that can be controlled - "That happened because I used X, if I don't use X everything will be fine". We've got 15 years of (sadly anecdotal) data from keepers using a whole range of substrates - some of whom have had the same crabs over that entire period - that shows it makes no difference so long as it's not overcrowded, and that it's deep and kept moist without being allowed to flood. Old recommendations were twice as deep as your crab and with more crabs per gallon, and in the years since both have become more generous I haven't seen a decrease in incidents either.

[landlubber]

I've done it all three ways, and with different mixtures - never found any difference in the amount of perfect molts, no matter the substrate. Bad molts happen, new crabs are more likely to die, and troublemakers exist. It's often easier to attribute something bad to something that can be controlled - "That happened because I used X, if I don't use X everything will be fine". We've got 15 years of (sadly anecdotal) data from keepers using a whole range of substrates - some of whom have had the same crabs over that entire period - that shows it makes no difference so long as it's not overcrowded, and that it's deep and kept moist without being allowed to flood. Old recommendations were twice as deep as your crab and with more crabs per gallon, and in the years since both have become more generous I haven't seen a decrease in incidents either.

I also have used all the recommended substrates in different combinations and have noticed no difference in successful molts with one verses another. And Wode, I think that's an accurate insight that we often want to feel like we "know" why anything bad happens so we can prevent it, but the facts are there are too many variables which may contribute to molt issues such as deformities or death, many occurring long before we get our crabs (such as genetics or what happened to them during harvesting) that we cannot control or even know about really. And there could be certain variables which cause issues only as multivariates.....what we can do is look at our experiences with objectivity and critical thinking and act accordingly. If we're really good and motivated we can record our observations and data.

There is referenced again, the anecdotal evidence and data collected over the decades by crabbers but I am confused.....is this data that the HCA has specifically collected and houses somewhere (because it's not on the forum anywhere I can see)? I am guessing if so this was the information used to create care sheets? Was the data collected via surveys? Is data still being collected? I LOVE analyzing and pouring over this kind of information and I'd love to be able to review this information, or even be involved in some way with collecting or analyzing it, but the few times I've asked theses questions no one addressed them. I also like the idea of transparency of this kind of data rather than only a few people having access, that wouldn't do crab husbandry the best good, especially long-term. Can anyone address any of my questions? I am dying of curiosity......

[wodesorel]

The HCA got into the habit of deleting old information. So yes, at one time there were surveys and journal-type topics from long term crabbers. There were also posts dating back to the creation of the forum where one could see the evolution of care recommendations and how and why things changed over time. I was lucky that these still existed when I joined and I was able to read through tons of information. I don't think of any of it is still around.

[landlubber]

Thanks for the info. Dang. I'd like to see it. I am guessing it's not deleted from existence, just the site? What a shame.

[CallaLily]

EDIT: I came back to add that, IME, too shallow/sloping substrate or overcrowded conditions do lead to disturbed molters who can resurface with deformities too (as well as too dry/wet). I wonder if that's what the issue is for these crabbers...

I just wanted to clarify that this statement is based solely on my personal experience over the years - with varying substrates, depths, and space. I did see a HUGE difference in disturbed/deformed or unsuccessful molts with sloping substrate and overcrowded conditions. I feel it was the cause as nothing else had changed in their care and everything went back to "normal" once these were corrected.