Thinking Out Loud - thoughts?

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aussieJJDude
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Thinking Out Loud - thoughts?

Post by aussieJJDude » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:17 pm

Ok,
So... Lets just say I havent had the best success with this terrarium. Believe me, the front opening doors are amazing and make it so easy to access the tank. And it large enough to allow me to scape it - freedom - yet small enough that I can lug it around with 2 people if I ever have to move it. The problem is, the stand came from the previous owner which is more of a TV ikea unit. As a result, the tank overhangs the front by about an inch. Figured it wouldnt be too much of a problem, since it contains "feet" which the stand does support not to mention my family was all like 'its fine' "shouldnt be too much of an issue' ect. And I figured since I have to use a 'insert' so that way I could have some amount of substrate in there without it falling out.

Lets just say the glass cracked and the front has completely come off the silicone - basically, its holding up by the two sides and a clamp at the top. So yeah... not functional.
The crack - and also the bottom has completely broke off the bottom glass unit... Even with the crack, the glass still bows a lot. :shock:
Image
Since the front piece bowed, it also lead to the result of a broken sliding glass door - with cutting yourself on glass is not fun...
Image

Since this is an obvious danger, and its a question of when not if, I has forced into an 'upgrade' (aka: new tank. Yay)

Originally I got a nice custom 6 foot tank (6 ft x 2ft x 27.5 inch high) fish tank, that I had built. I also included a nice glass partition around a foot in to make a nice looking SW pool.
Image
Except I forgot to think that aquariums are braced to be filled with water, which is a cm thick (around 0.4 inch thick) which made it extremely heavy - at least in excess of 100 pounds. Two people can move the think, but it is extremely hard to do so! The weight wasnt so much of an issue, rather how will I get it into my room. As we later found out, my current terrarium is not 5 ft long, nor is it 2 ft wide...
:anon:
Its 4 inches short, and 6 inches less in depth/width.... So the behemoth isnt going anywhere further than the front doorway. Now, I could of set it up away from my room, but I decided against that in terms of my family enjoying to spray various chemicals, perfumes and what not... (And also, the only rooms I frequent is my desk, the kitchen/living/dining room, bedroom and of course, bathroom. That room is never on my agenda, and I knew that it I set it up there I was not going to take good care of them.)

This left me with a dilemma. I need to upgrade, but I dont want to loose out on these - few - requirements.
- Must be an appropriate depth/width, Many past tanks have been 45 cm (1.5 ft) in lenght - like this one - and I'd love to have an increase in width so I can have more options to place objects
- some form of it must be sliding doors, to allow easy access
- must be able to get into my room (max of 5 foot, and probably a max of 2ft)

You can see where this is going?

I was thinking of purchasing two 4ft terrariums (URS tall/giant models, 4ft long, 1.5ft wide, 3.3ft high) and connecting them through tubing... But each are in excess of $500, so they aren't exactly the cheapest. Not to mention, I looking for an increase in width. We arent fortunate to have terrarium builders, and even though there are articles out there, to get the glass cut to my measurements - at one other stage was thinking of doing a custom 'euro' style vivarium - would be expensive, and not only that, extremely labour intensive. In the future maybe, but currently this is a pipe dream that has to be placed on hold.

Now, how about a 'custom wooden viv'... It can still be costly, but at least i can build/dismantle easily, shape it to my preference and in a long run, cheaper to make... So, I have decided on the idea to do a custom plywood tank. Which, hopefully will happen - if not, this might just turn into a thread to discuss building tanks, and give others direction.

My basic design is going to be a little different than the usual wooden tank. (Kips and NeatHedgehog have detailed threads that most involve using pond liner and epoxy... Even Naalide: http://naali.de/einsiedler/?page_id=328 <<< one of my favourite loves of crabitat...)
My idea is to use a small preformed pond, similar to a glorified tote. Reasoning, I dont have to worry about pond liner - which is expensive - not to mention that any seam in a pond liner has the potential to leak, rotting the wood underneath if not sufficiently epoxied. Also, it allows me to install such things as 'bulk heads' which I could use as drainage since I wont be able to view my substrate layers. The lip of the preformed ponds will then sit on a cut out plywood base, siliconed - and supported - which then will be epoxied, and covered with gravel, sand or crushed coral - since its at most an inch deep, while the pond areas will be up to a foot deep. Or even spray foam, carved and then covered with concrete - long time fav - or bits of sand/coral ect. All wood definitely will be non-treated!!!!!!!
To further minimise weight, I also plan to use plexiglass - which also gives me an option to buy a large sheet which is cheaper and cut it myself, instead of buying glass and having the shop cut it - costing more money. Plexi has the ability to warp and scratch, which sand, crabs and plexi do not make a good match - i know - but if it gets too much og a problem I can easily swap it out with glass, buff it out or buy new ones - if needed.

So there you have it. I might in the next couple of days do a very rough or freehand sketch, to show what I mean. :) But warning; Im not good at drawing and google sketch up is way too slow. :lol:


So far my current questions are:
- do I have to use epoxy? Aint exactly cheap in Aus, and theres cheaper alternatives... (Synthetic rubber, which many also use for plywood aquariums to seal them...)
- Should I stay away from pines/soft woods? Not only cause they have to potential to release aromatic compounds, but also due to a small area of wood that hasn't been covered in a 'coverant'; more likely to rot/leak/warp?

So... thoughts?
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DaJimmer
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Re: Thinking Out Loud - thoughts?

Post by DaJimmer » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:16 pm

Sry about the break...Wow...im just going to help you by wishing you best of luck. Im clueless other than a few vague thoughts. Get exactly what you need and dont cut corners. It seems to me that anything wood is a bad idea. Especially soft woods. I planned and planned a big bad dog house with a porch one time. Wanted to make it nice and sturdy. Built it out of 4by4s and thick plywood. Came out ok but i realized after it was buit that 2 grown men couldnt safely move the monstrosity. Use the lightest AND the strongest. Talk to pros. Glass cutters and carpenters and metal fabricators. Cut your losses/ cut to the chase and just buy something nice and pre fabbed. In my experience its imposible to build your own cheaper and better??
You read all this and it didnt help one iota. :roll: good luck keep us posted.
-Jimmer

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Re: Thinking Out Loud - thoughts?

Post by LadyJinglyJones » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:19 am

Regarding the wood base, might I suggest a panel you remove to be able to check the interior for a moisture build up? With softwood you can get a lot of moisture absorbtion, and drying - repetition of this can lead to warping & of course long spells of moisture inside can result in mildew. Though with plywood warping is less of a concern I suppose. I'd still want to be able to check inside, just for peace of mind.

Plywood is heated in the manufacturing process 'cause it's a bunch of veneer laminated tother - I'm not %100 on this, but I doubt that a softwood of a better quality ply would still be leaching - the volatile should have been heated off.

But I'd look into the resin used... I dunno if phenol formaldehyde (verr common glue) off gasses long after the fact. I'd be concerned that while it may not be enough to be considered a threat to humans, smallish inverts might be intolerant (?). I'd look into that... and insect retardants.

If you go hardwood, maple is the most moisture resistant.

Were you going to paint or urethane the outside of the base?

Also, any tips on cutting plexiglass? I gots to build a lid.
"Gaze upon the rolling deep..."
Quince the fat tailed gecko; Amazonian minnows; and now Harry & Luis, Bede & Aster, Chandra & Jace, Pax, & Piccolo, my adopted PPs.
RIP Vegita :(

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Re: Thinking Out Loud - thoughts?

Post by aussieJJDude » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:41 pm

DaJimmer: Agreed. Cutting corners is not something I like to do anyway, unless I know I can do it with little/no consequence. :) Wood that hasn't been treated - and I'm not talking about with pesticides and such, rather covered with some sort of waterproof membrane - is defiantly not wise, hence the reason why people - for various terrariums or aquariums - cover the wood with epoxy - or in aquariums, synthetic rubber... But I know for myself I'll prefer to stay away from softwoods, the cost is a fraction cheaper but I believe that hardwood can equate to a stronger/more stable build, and also give me the piece of mind - I still forget and jump to conclusion that pine is bad. Old habits die hard!
No glass for me, I want to stay away from that as much as possible... Maybe at most a small 2ft tank to make a nice SW pool, but thats about it. I dont want glass. Its expensive to cut, replace if broke and heavy.
(IDK if its a US thing, but I dont think they commonly sell wooden vivariums for hermit crabs. ;) They sell terrariums thats constructed out of melamine board, but thats a no go for me. Its not moisture resistant and prone to warping and only suitable for desert reptiles... And I don't know how well epoxy adheres to the 'plastic coat'.)
But I think for what I have in mind and what I want, its could be cheaper to DIY. Glass terrariums are narrow, and since all terrariums are imported from germany, UK, Asia and the US; they all every expensive. A small exo terra ft cube is at least $100-150Au, and thats just the for the glass box... And considering the customisation I have to do, not to mention I'm looking for 'width', they have a lot of negatives that I'm not looking for... They make a great back up option if I don't do a custom wooden, but I'm really have my heart set on a wooden custom.

LadyJinglyJones, I struggling to understand exactly what you mean... Do you mean a way to view under the base, or more the base in general. Cause my plan of attack is to leave the base open somewhat so I can store goodies and what not, so I'll be able to see damage through that. And if its the base in general, remember. Epoxy (and also synthetic rubber). It forms a waterproof seal, which I also plan of siliconing the tub to the wooden base. It probably wont be water tight - silicone does not bond well to plastic I know - but at least it can provide a waterproof barrier of some sort to contain excess moisture.
Thats true... But the different between a softwood and a hardwood is a couple of dollars, and hardwood is at least more 'stronger' - I gave up on looking on the word.. ridged? durability? - so may be able to withstand a bit more pressure... Which is shouldnt, since I also plan to make a frame with 2 by whatever - my woodwork skills suck, but I know how to make a basic aquarium stand... :D - so that should hold most of the weight.

Epoxy does need a 'cooling off period. I think most brands out there is around a week before its good to go, which is the similar time frame for silicone if its to be placed under water. Regardless, there should be instructions on the packaging for hold long one must wait before whatever, which I do plan on following! :) Epoxy basically forms a plastic shell, so it should be inert. Regardless, similar is used in terrariums/aquariums - and also in the crabbing community - so Im confident that the epoxy should be fine... Even synthetic rubber should technically be fine, I'm just wondering if synthetic rubber will hold up to the crabs... They do fine in fish tanks, but fish aren't as abusive as crabs.... Which I further have to look into to.

I'll probably stain the outside, and anything that might be in contact with moisture I'll probably give it at least a coat of whatever so its moisture resistant - which can give me time if something bad does happen....

As for cutting plexi, I normally just use a hand held saw and hack away... Once thats done, I just sand paper it out and get a nice smooth finish. Works well for me :) But other commonly use tools build for cutting plexi, think tis called a glass cutter...? Which if you want to spend the extra dollar or so, but I heard it does help and makes cutting a breeze so it could be something to look into?

Silly me should of also included these links from HCA: :oops: But they might help and give reference in case some of you guys havent seen them before and may give some insight.
http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/ph ... p?t=114421
NeatHedgehog one, including a pic and a link to build..

http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/ph ... 39&t=95022
Kips 'tank'. Unfortunately pics dont work - photobucket - but they still appear on google from time to time if you google the title of the thread... And might have something up on youtube?

http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/ph ... hp?t=74173
And Wod's display cabinet. Not exactly the same thing as Im going to do, but similar principals.
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Re: Thinking Out Loud - thoughts?

Post by LadyJinglyJones » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:25 pm

Ah, I didn't pick up that the base would be an accessible storage space. I was envisioning it just containing the pond for sub.

If the resin comment was confusing, I was talking about what bonds the plys in the plywood. But if it's all rubber-ed over, yeah, you're right. Of course.

For crabs I'd stick to the firmer epoxy... over time I think the surface of the rubber might get minced.

I'm pretty visual & miss elements of design in writing all the time.

Thanks for those links... I do need to look at them to see the design.

I'd seen Kip's (before photo bucket bucked), but not the other two. :D
"Gaze upon the rolling deep..."
Quince the fat tailed gecko; Amazonian minnows; and now Harry & Luis, Bede & Aster, Chandra & Jace, Pax, & Piccolo, my adopted PPs.
RIP Vegita :(

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Re: Thinking Out Loud - thoughts?

Post by aussieJJDude » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:34 am

I figured that the crabs 'shouldnt' come into contact with the plywood anyway; and also its used for terra/aqua builds; I failed to think of that... But that is a good point. Maybe some research is in order?
After a lot of googling today, I think I found a pretty good match to my idea.
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthrea ... to-finish-!!!
https://au.pinterest.com/jarrod3067/diy-viv-steps/
^^^ basically that, but imagine epoxy to cover all wood surfaces, more enclosed - for humidity/heat - and since its enclosed, has doors of some sort....
Still in the process of drawing up my basic design - excluding framing, as I was too lazy to add that in to sketch up - but close to finishing...! Just gotta find where I placed my charger for my old laptop which has the program on it... :(
|| Avid Aquarist Addict (2007) || Crazy Crabbing Connoisseur (2012) || Amateur Aroid Admirer (2014) ||

I strive to make HCA a welcoming space for all
Infrequently on due to studies, on a little more on in FB group

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