Problems With Indo Crabs

[Guest]

I have a 40 gallon breeder as my main tank and have about 30 hermies in there....all six commone species...cavipes, rugs, Es, PPs, indos and strawberries. About two weeks ago one of my indos took up residence in the saltwater bowl, he stayed in it all the time. I'd take him out, clean and refill the bowl every other day and he'd go right back in it. About a week ago he started acting very lethargic and hanging way out his shell. I thought this could be the indication of a surface molt. Then a couple of days ago he died. He never would come out of the salt water bowl. Now another one of my indos is in the bowl and doesn't want to come out...any suggestions?

[Aviate]

Two thoughts come to mind:1. how long have you had these indos?2. Have you introduced any new crab/contaminant lately?We dont know enough medically about hermit crabs to be able to ascertain if there are species related illnesses, much less which illnesses they are susceptable to in general. However, hermit crabs can certainly be "sick" and can certainly transmit illnesses to one another.Generally a hermit crab becomes sick after exposure to a reptile parasite or simply unclean conditions in a petstore. This is why LHC advocates ISOlating all new crabs for at least 3-6 weeks. This is a must to protect your existing tank members from any bacteria, parasites, or viruses the new additions may be harbouring.There is no quick explanation as to what would be wrong with your specific crabs, especially without knowing the above two factors.If these crabs are new, they could simply be dying of pps. Or they could have some contagious illness, which is a danger to your entire tank and simply affecting them first.If you introduced other new crabs recently, they could have been exposed to a germ of some sort which could be a danger to your entire tank.

[Guest]

I've had these indos for I guess eight or nine months. The only new crabs I've got are strawberries but this fellow was acting strange before I put them in the tank.

[GSnicklegrove]

Here is a concise pm about the subject I sent to another member: Okay, about iso's. For any exotic species, especially one's that cannot receive veterinary care, it is recommended by all exotic veterinarians and herpetologists to iso your speciman 1-3 months. When I first started crabbing, most people did not recommend isoing at all, and the ones who did, recommended the iso time on average of a week. All wild species (and many captive bred too) carry a host of good and bad bacteria, good and bad parasites, and good and bad fungi, sometimes even good/bad invasive algea. But this is fine, in their natural habitats, where they live free with circulating air and movement to different spots, especially with a healthy immune response. Then they are collected for sale, and their long journey to the pet store begins, sometimes which, can take up to a whole year of containment. The ones that die in this process are not counted at this time, although, just between you and me. Anyway, back to my point. All this stress, whether the crab is healthy or not, depletes their immune response. Malnoutrition leads to the overgrowing of harmful organisms that prevent the nutrient absorption of food, thus lowering stress response more. Fast forward to the petstore...you purchase your speciman, who may seem fine on inspection, even active. The problem is they are not sick YET, however, they may be growing and harboring a bacterial/fungal/viral infection in their body. Unfortunately, crabs, like other exotics, do not show any symptoms (that we are aware of) of sickness until it is too late. You bring your crab home, with his breeding ground of what not. Since the bad micro-organisms have gotten so healthy and established in this crab, they are strong enough to spread to other healthy captive crabs. This is the problem. Isoing is to prevent your existing collection of crabs, or in my case, my "crab family", from contacting any sickness. This in no way prevents your iso'd crab from getting sick. You are just giving time to the parasites and what not to show up if the immune function is very depressed. Generally, for parasites, it takes 1-3 months for symptoms to show up. I know that 3 months is very hard for crabbers, so I usually recommend myself an iso period of 3-4 weeks as a compromise. Isoing DOES NOT help with post purchase stress. Also, I would recommend absolutely no handling, baths or misting for at least 3 weeks, or until you add the crab to your regular habitat. Now, the crabs that are healthy enough, and able to recheck their bodies into micro-organism balance, they will survive. The one's with severe PPS die from what's inside of them. They may not be always contagious, but sometimes. From time to time, there are tank wipeouts, even with our members here. There was even a case of a pathogenic bacteria that was wiping out a mall store making the clerk sick. It was verified by hospital blood tests. I forgot to tell you about one of my indo's "Plum Flower" who was gift to me from _______. She has been in iso since the beginning of July. I kept her in initially for a month, but she never acted quite right. She has a barely visible infestation of some unknown bug. SHe has been treated for mites, ticks and fleas. It has been narrowed down to the springtail family, a collumboella subfamily, which is harmless, or some sort of blood ****ing lice, which is not. These things are not so evident from short isoing. Of course, Plum Flower is the kind of situation that people dread, usually it's just some crabs pull through PPS better than others. The shipments of crabs each come from different localities, each harboring the flora and fauna common to such places. The flora and fauna can even be different on the same beach, so that is to take into consideration. All these wild caught specimens are thrown together at some point, making it the perfect breeding and introduction ground for microbes some crabs have no resistance too. If they are to be done in by them, it may take some time, more than a week or two. The biggest concern about isoing is that there is a misnomer it is for the new crabs health, and its not. It is to protect the established collection. I have had first hand experience of seeing how a microbe in one crab knocked out every crab dead in a habitat in less than a week. It is a nightmare. Bad luck does not kill crabs. Just remember, PPS is a comforting diagnosis for what we can't see, it narrows down how people feel about crab deaths, so that people think PPS is the disease, but it is not. Gertie

[Guest]

quote:Originally posted by Aviate:hmm..1. did you iso the straws before introducing them to the tank?2. could the indos be pre-molt; have they molted yet? I Iso'd the straws for about a week, but the first indo was staying in the water bowl before I even got the straws. I thought it was a possible pre-molt sympton. Then about a week ago he started hanging out of his shell while still in the bowl. I could change the water and he'd withdraw back in his shell, but as soon as I put in a new bowl of salt water he'd go right back in and start hanging out of his shell. Really looked like a surface molt to me then one morning last week he just died. Now another indo is exhibiting similar bahavior. He's been in the bowl for two days, so I put him in ISO a couple of hours ago...it's a twenty gallon tank competely set up with UTH, salt and fresh water and food. So far he's just milling about like nothing is wrong.

[Aviate]

Well, sitting in the water dish with a vacant gaze is not a good sign. Whats causing it is anyones guess. It could be an abdominal infection or irritation, general disease, premolt, or other issues.Hmmm... Keep us posted and keep a close eye on the crabs.

[lubbi2]

Ok, here is my info on this.I've lost several indo's, they seem to be the more delicate species for me. I've long believed, however, that when a new crab is purchased, there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. I sort of use my human medical knowledge for my crab-care. For instance, should a human be severly dehydrated, one does not feed them a steak dinner their first day. I think that a newly-purchased, severely-stressed crab should not be offered too much food. I even try to stick to the old "BRAT" diet when I first bring them home. Bananas, rice, applesauce, and toast. I don't give my crabs toast, but the rest I do give to my new arrivals. Rice is given in the form of baby rice cereal. I also give organic honey to my new-comers. I also provide water, but not a deluge of it. I figure if it can have detrimental effects on a human being, it could hurt the crabs. Remember mom saying "sip it slow?" I will provide a wide, shallow dish of water, so the crab can drink, and fill his shell, without over-filling, or over-hydrating. I do the same with my salt water, and, if I see a crab who is spending excessive amounts in the salt water, in conjunction with a noticable, negative change from when I purchased them, I will remove the salt water for a few hours and see what happens. My theory to explain that is again, very similar to humans. Should an athlete get seriously dehydrated, as much as that person wants to "chug" down a gallon of Gatorade, they aren't permitted to. I always make sure to provide what is needed for the crabs, but I think it takes careful balance to ensure that a starving, neglected creature doesn't over-hydrate, or over-feed itself in the first few weeks. After a crab has had time to re-adjust to osmoregulation, of course I provide salt water all the time.So, in other words, I think a crab can shut down, or change, the way it regulates itself when they are in seriously detrimental conditions. I don't want to take a chance on giving too much of a good thing, and allowing a crab to over-do it in the critical time of recovery.