More Views on Bathing/Not Bathing Crabs

[Guest]

Bathing is a highly debated issue in the hermit crab community. It is apparent now that the best solution is to provide “pools” of both salt and fresh water for the animals to do it themselves. It promotes more natural behavior, reduces stress, and seems to be an all around better solution. Unfortunately, many owners do not have the room, or money to have such lavish conditions for their animals, so we as a community, should point them in the proper direction for how to bathe, instead of condemning them for not being able to provide said pools, and thus dividing the community.I would like to ask for helpful criticism, not all out debate in putting forth these guidelines for bathing. First off, I would like to put forth the abolishment of recommending the use of stress coat. This is a hot issue in itself, but because of the lack of empirical evidence, I do not believe it to be beneficial. Stress coat was designed to dechlorinate water and replace the slime coating of fish. LHC’s do not have a slime coat. When this chemical is put in the water, it is often used in addition to an initial dechlorinater. This causes an abundance of dechlorinater, and lack of chlorine for it to bind to, causing it to stay in the water, and then in the shell water reservoir of the crab. Because this chemical was not created for use with hermit crabs, and no laboratory studies have been conducting showing the chemistry of what effect this is having on the crabs, I say that we, as a community, resolve to not suggest its use to beginners anymore. This of course does not mean that all of those who use stress coat should stop, but that we should no longer recommend its use to beginners. Instead suggesting regular dechlorination of the water.The second thing I want to recommend is to no longer recommend weekly bathing, but instead, monthly bathing. The reason for this is the stress issue. It has been noted by many crab owners that the activity level of their crabs has increased dramatically after a bath. Considering that a crab’s normal activity level is far below that before the bath, then this high activity level would be considered abnormal behavior. Abnormal behavior in animals generally means that something is wrong, in the case of crabs, because we generally do not know much about LHC illness, this is interpreted as stress, which is bad for the overall health of our pets. So to reduce this stress, I suggest a monthly bath. This again does not mean that we are condemning all active members who bathe on a more regular basis; this is just a recommendation to beginners, who are looking to us for advice.The argument is often made that bathing will throw off the natural balance of salinity in the shell water, thus affecting the internal salinity level of the LHC. This may be true. It has also become a common practice for those who have mite problems to bathe their crabs in saltwater to rid the crab of mites. For these purposes, I suggest that the bath water is recommended to be1/4 to 1/2 salt-water solution, to lessen the shift in the shell water salinity, and for general sanitary purposes.Again, I am not suggesting that all active members change their methods, but that we as a community put forth some more well outlined procedures for bathing that are a little more on the conservative side, but also take into account the current evidence for the benefit of the health of the crab. If not for standardization, but for helping the beginner in maintaining a healthy crab.Of course all opinions are welcome, please keep it polite, and lets all work towards a common goal, instead of trying to divide ourselves.

[NewCrabber]

What you are suggesting regarding frequency of bathing is already the general school of thought here on LHC. And that I know of, we've not condemned anyone for not being able to provide large pools as part of the captive environment. It is understood not everyone has the means to make that provision. I would say though, that personally, I do not believe not having room for large pools indicates the need for even monthly bathing. If a tank is not big enough to house larger hermies, and it shouldn't, it doesn't need very big pools. A smaller, deep pool is sufficient and there is room for two in a 10G tank, it's all in the way it is set up. That is not to say that I am necessarily discouraging bathing all together, though it is a rare occasion that I feel it necessary for my own troop.And I do agree that bathing can be a stressful experience for a crab.While we're on the subject, I'll also add that it used to be said that if a crabber lives in a dry climate, they should bathe/mist more frequently than the once suggested weekly routine. I still see that suggested now and then. Living in a dry climate doesn't make it impossible to create a humid environment. The challenge is different, not impossible. I agree with your assessment of SC. Though it's use is still suggested, it's not so much as it was at one time. My understanding of how SC came to the crabbing community is that a pioneer of sorts was having difficulty getting his Es though molts. He did a lot of research and spoke with several knowledgeable people in the Aquarium community looking for something that might help. From there he began using SC, his E molt success rate increased dramatically and the use of the product took off from there. Some crabbers are not only under the impression that it is a healthy conditioner for the gills, but that it will heal damaged gills. There is no evidence that proves or disproves that, but in my own experience, I've not had problems getting my Es through molts without the use of SC and I see no difference in the over all health of my hermies from my early days of crabbing when I did use SC.

[JediMasterThrash]

This whole thing has been debated quite a bit. Here's a thread from a year ago where we went over the exact same issues.Should we change our mindes about bathing our hermit crabs(I don't know why Bill's original post was edited out, but it went on to explain a lot of scientific info about why forced bathing is stressful if not harmful to crabs)The issue being the 2 sides to the coin:1. We shouldn't keep hermit crabs as pets unless we can provide proper accomodations (i.e., a habitat as close to their native home as possible). This means a large tank, pools of circulated water, circulated air, and proper temp and humidity and lighting.2. People who can't provide the "perfect crabitat" are still going keep hermit crabs as pets. So as crab conservationalists, we can't neglect these crabs, despite the less-than-ideal conditions. So we develop the "crab care on a budget" to provide the best possible crab care with limited resources.So what you'll see on this board is always a "the best way is X, but if you can't do that, Y is the best alternative".Even in my care sheet, I say "If you do not have sufficiently sized water bowls in the tank for crabs to bathe themselves, you should give the unburied crabs an occasional bath."I think the biggest issue is to make sure you don't dig-up crabs. Only bath crabs that are active on the surface.But as was mentioned, there's not much excuse. You can easily fit a medium-sized water dish in a 10g, and medium-sized crabs should be able to bath in that. You're tank shouldn't be so crowded that you can't fit it in, and you can always build a second-level if you need more room.It's also about progressive care. Say someone comes on who just got a crab at a mall in a small Kritter-Killer. Do we just shun him and his KK? No, that would be wrong. So we need to immediately improve the crabs condition, so we give him the best advice for keeping a crab healthy in a KK (deeper substrate, seran wrap, etc), and then guide them towards future better care. In most cases, they will upgrade to a 10 or 20g within a few weeks after realizing the needs of these oft-misunderstood creatures. And within a year they might get a 55+g tank and approad ideal conditions, (or in some cases, decide the care requirments are too high and adopt them out to other members). So we have to support this path from start to finish, even if the start isn't an ideal environment.

[KittyCaller]

I'd say also, that most who come on here already perhaps have an inkling that the KK set up and care isn't quite so easy as the kiosks etc would have them believe. Not in every case, but we're a pretty persuasive group. I've never been big on the bathing, even when weekly baths were recommended. I did bathe them occasionally in the winter when the humidity dropped, but nowhere near a regular basis. Quite frankly, I'm lazy and that was part of the lapse of baths, but the crabs also just didn't seem to like 'em much. I didn't notice a whole lot of difference between when I bathed 'em and when I didn't, so why expose 'em to something they didn't seem to like? Anyways, I can't say whether stress coat is good or bad for crabs. I do know they're not supposed to ingest it on a regular basis, but I can't say whether it helps heal gills or not. I'd be willing to believe it upsets the balance of water in their shells, though.

[KittyCaller]

Another point that hasn't been brought up yet is that hermies have a delicate balance of fresh and salt water in their shells. Bathing disturbs this balance. Healthy hermies can usually replace it okay, but it's a hassle for them. Bathing isn't wrong, and I think crabbers who want to are completely entitled, though I think that leaving at least stressed crabbies alone is a good idea. (Not talking about your hermie in particular, Daxter, this is just generally speaking. ) I don't bathe mine anymore, even molters, because I've found that I don't need to. They're able to dip in their water bowls just fine and acheive the same affect without the stress. I tend to have a somewhat more hands off approach, however, to my crabbies.

[breezeetew]

YAY! I was doing what JMT suggests here and I have had no deaths aside from some micros that a really *ahem* stupid woman mailed loose in a box that got battered.I do not bathe any crabs with the exception of those poorly mailed micros that needed some moisture, and then it was more to put them into the iso within the water dish and see who survived by seeing who climbed out. (it was so sad!) Some were pulled tightly in the shell dead.I have huge water dishes, so the crabs take care of business for themselves.All of my molts are main tank, the iso is for streakers and newbies and those are given fresh substrate and water, so I go by the assumption that they will not have any lingering "stuff" by the time I return them to the main tank(s).So far, no aggression, but I have way too many shells per crabbie capita. At least 30 shells for my 15 micros and 8-10 for my 8 large to jumbo crabs. Of course, there is a KK full of shells that I rotate in case of the "perfect" shell not being there.I guess most of my crabs are hands off, like a fish aquarium. I provide food and water and other maintenence and let nature take care of the rest.All of this said, this is just what I do with my crabs, you need to do what you feel is best.

[JediMasterThrash]

Well, there have been a couple of cases where crabs were killed by a bath because the human got distracted and forgot about them. Left in the water for over an hour, they drown.But that's not really an issue. The issue is simply molt-success and long-term health. Facts we know about the roles that shell water (see the Greenaway article) play in crab health and the molting process lead us to believe that long-term health and higher molting success will be achieved by letting the crab, not us, regulate their shell water and cleanliness.Also, our human notion of cleanliness is a rather young and anti-natural idea. Up until a few hundred years ago, even humans never took regular baths. Animals have natural oils on their skin, and these oils protect us. Washing removes these oils and dries out our skin.Same with domestic pets. We know lots of people that give their cats and dogs regular, even weekly baths. But again this is unnatural. Cats and dogs naturally clean their own fur as needed. Natural oils in their fur provide protection for inner coat layers and skin and give it shine and health. Regular washing upsets this balance until the fur can no longer maintain oils itself, and now requires regular washing to stay clean.I never bathe my two cats (unless they roll around in poop), and they always smell nice and have puffy, shiney coats because they know best how to clean themselves (and each other).I always support different ways to care for crabs. You never know how often common crab care beliefs get turned upside down. Maybe someday we'll have proof that crabs survive longer with bathing, who knows. But until all the research is done, based on science articles I've read, I'm taking the more "hands off" approach to the crabs (though I still pull one out now and then to say hi).Maybe crab can survive longer in captivity with "micromanaging". That is, regularly bathing, always knowing exactly who's about to molt, making holes for them and individually ISOing them, etc. But that's waay to much work for me. So I'm just trying to recreate their natural environment as close as possible and let nature take it's course.

[JediMasterThrash]

quote:Originally posted by mandylovesmaddy:You should also bathe all crabs together if you are introducing new ones into the tank, (after the iso period, of course) that way they all smell the same and it reduces the chance of any aggression by one crab towards another. That's kind of an old form of the advice. I do recommend bathing new crabs after their ISO period, but just to clean off anything they might have brought with them from the pet store. I definitely don't recommend pulling out all your resident main-tank crabs to bathe them all together, since I don't recommend regular bathing for the already mentioned reasons. I have never had a problem with new vs. old crab aggression due to not smelling the same. The only time I had aggression, it was a shell fight, and I just plopped the aggressor on the second level with the extra shells in front of a nice-looking shell and he changed immediately and that was the end of that. I think true crab aggression is extremely rare, and most reported cases are due to shell fights, tunnel fights (a crab ventures into someone else's newly made tunnel) or overcrowding. E's like to "poot" other crabs away from their favorite hidey spots, and PPs like to "poot" other crabs away from the food bowl. But I don't call that aggression, just fun.quote: Also any recently molted crab that is being reintroduced into the main tank should be dunked to get the irresistable molt smell off him. That also lessens the chances of an attack. Assuming the substrate is deep enough and the tank isn't overcrowded, crabs should molt in the main tank, so there shouldn't be any reintroduction necessary. I've never washed a newly molted crab, and have never yet had a molt-smell aggression. Once I had a surface molt because he molted the day after a deep clean, and the crabs went after his exo, but not against him. I do always have some dried shrimp/plankton in the food dish, so they shouldn't have to go after the exo. But I really think it's just the exo they go after, not the molter itself.

[Willow]

I don't bathe my crabbies (except that new hermies get a salt water soak), but one recommendation I read someplace was that you should bathe them with a salt/fresh water mixture, the salt concentration varying according to species. If I remember correctly, PPs and Indos should have a 50/50 salt/fresh mixture, Es and Ruggies should have a 75% salt/25% fresh mixture, and Straws should have a full salt water bath. I don't remember where Cavs/Violas were placed, but probably with the Es and Ruggies. This makes sense to me, and that's how I mix the new hermies' baths. I just started doing this for new crabs, and it has worked out nicely---I haven't lost any of the last batch (of 7 crabbies!) I bought.