Crabs seem to dislike beach sand/ seawater.

UVA2002 · Post by **UVA2002** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:10 pm

Hi fellow crabbers! I decided to bring some sand home from beach and a few bottles of saltwater from ocean. Well when I put it in tank the crabs have been literally living on the climbing wood/obstacles wI'll not even walk on sand . As far as water same things my dish and water are spotless. I've even smoothed out sand and not even a footprint on it all night. Even mixed the sand up. there just huddled up in corner on highest part of wood by lid. They seem comfortable but just curious if anyone has had same issues. They have been in play sand for years. So maybe it's too salty? Idk Thanks you! :crabbigsmile:

IBlab crab · Post by **IBlab crab** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:38 am

I don;t think you are supposed to give them that type of salt water.It needs to be marine grade aquarium salt mix like Instant Ocean.I am sure the bottles you brought home had other "living' things in them.
I use beach sand and have for 35 years with no problem and hundreds of molts.It needs to be moist and sand castle consistency.
Crabs in the wild stay high in trees a little inland from ocean.I think they like being up high because in nature of peditors and flooding.If you are new to crabbing maybe you could give us some info on your setup or fill out emergency sheet.

soilentgringa · Post by **soilentgringa** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:56 am

The reason it isn't a good idea to bring them ocean water is that as the organisms living in the seawater die, the chemicals (namely ammonia) put out as they decompose can be harmful to the crabs. In a closed environment they are more concentrated than they would be in the ocean.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

IBlab crab · Post by **IBlab crab** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:06 am

OOP's,I meant to add that "living things" would die in the bottle by the time they got home.

Post by **aussieJJDude** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:57 am

soilentgringa wrote:The reason it isn't a good idea to bring them ocean water is that as the organisms living in the seawater die, the chemicals (namely ammonia) put out as they decompose can be harmful to the crabs. In a closed environment they are more concentrated than they would be in the ocean.

^^^^ Yep, that!

However if you have properly cycled SW pool; it shouldn't be a massive problem (somewhat beneficial in a way; since it's keeping the nitrogen cycle going) however most crabbers don't have these luxuries. No to mention; many of these macro/micro organisms will quickly die due to the lack of food. Even if these organisms are somewhat beneficial; I pretty sure you don't feel comfortable enought to find a bristle worm (click on the link if you're brave enough); which depending on the species could be a few inches long to a few more (like 8inch)..

Mostly unsightly; I'm sure they something its something you don't want to come across in your pool!

UVA2002 · Post by **UVA2002** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:45 am

Thanks I appreciate it!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

UVA2002 · Post by **UVA2002** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:16 pm

Good science on that seawater! As soon as I removed the seawater dish the immediately came down from the wood and right back to normal hiding spots. Thanks again

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Laurie LeAnn · Post by **Laurie LeAnn** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:40 am

Some people may have good luck using sand straight from a beach but in my opinion and this is just my opinion..you are risking your crabs health. The sand is tainted with the same stuff the water was..unless you are washing it and baking it.maybe this is why they don't like it??.I think you are posing a risk to their health and they are already compromised and stressed.

UVA2002 · Post by **UVA2002** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:00 pm

Thanks I went and got a new bag to change it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IBlab crab · Post by **IBlab crab** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:15 am

Laurie LeAnn wrote:Some people may have good luck using sand straight from a beach but in my opinion and this is just my opinion..you are risking your crabs health. The sand is tainted with the same stuff the water was..unless you are washing it and baking it.maybe this is why they don't like it??.I think you are posing a risk to their health and they are already compromised and stressed.

What? Beach sand is one of the best substrates to use.I have used beach sand only since 1975.There is good salt and calcium in beach sand and I never bake it.Like I have said I have healthy crabs with great molts.I think this info. is incorrect and it would be beneficial for new crabbers to know they can use it without harm.

soilentgringa · Post by **soilentgringa** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:21 am

In many places, it is against the law to remove sand or shells from the beach. Before doing so you would need to check beachcombing laws.

As discussed above, contaminants and dying organisms in a closed environment are a concern as well.

**Post has been edited to reflect that HCA does not have an "official" recommendation for substrate; however many crabbers prefer a 5:1 ratio of playsand to cocofiber, as it holds up well for tunnelling and the sand has already been washed, screened, and is the ideal consistency.**

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

IBlab crab · Post by **IBlab crab** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:00 am

soilentgringa wrote:In many places, it is against the law to remove sand or shells from the beach. Before doing so you would need to check beachcombing laws.

As discussed above, contaminants and dying organisms in a closed environment are a concern as well.

HCA's official recommendation is 5:1 playsand to Eco Earth.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

We own beach property and I return sand that is used.Many petshops sell beach sand.Disagree about this very much and I feel HCA is giving out improper info.I hope I will be able to speak my mind on this without having to leave this site.Some of the caring info has changed on this site since the LHC/HCA merger.Very disappointed.
In 35 years I have had no deaths due to beach sand.

soilentgringa · Post by **soilentgringa** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:32 am

IBlab crab wrote: We own beach property and I return sand that is used.Many petshops sell beach sand.Disagree about this very much and I feel HCA is giving out improper info.I hope I will be able to speak my mind on this without having to leave this site.Some of the caring info has changed on this site since the LHC/HCA merger.Very disappointed.
In 35 years I have had no deaths due to beach sand.

HCA typically does not prohibit civil debates as long as they do not devolve into personal attacks or get super heated. Differences of opinion do happen here just as anywhere else.

However, difference in opinion does not mean that we give improper care information.

You may not have had an issue with using beach sand from your private property, and that's great, but remember that not all areas are going to have the same exact sand. Some will be more polluted, have different flora and fauna-there are variables.

The HCA care guides haven't changed, at least not since I've been a member (2 years in June).

Someone who has been an admin with HCA for longer than I can definitely chime in here, but we always refer new crabbers to our care guides and approved suggestions as they're the methods that have been researched and proven to be crab safe across the board, as well as utilizing items that are *generally* available anywhere (at least in the U.S.).

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

CallaLily · Post by **CallaLily** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:49 am

Also keep in mind laws will not always be the same area to area. It is indeed against the law at some beaches to remove sand, shells, etc. Check into your area. I realize, IBlab, that you own a piece of beach property but most here do not.

I agree with SG about contaminants and dying organisms. If your area is not heavily polluted (and it's legal), I think baking the sand before use would be sufficient enough. Someone correct me if I'm wrong there. I will say that since I've been reading and posting on this forum, this was always voiced as a concern by many other members about beach sand. Play sand and cocofiber are what's been recommended most as the best choices for substrate by many members here (though at slightly different depths and quantities) since I joined in 2008.

And like SG said, we do encourage others to share their opinions on crab care. Not everyone will agree with you and that's ok. Just keep it civil. Of course there are occasionally situations where we need to speak up about a crab put in a harmful situation, but I don't think this is one of them.

Crabber85 · Post by **Crabber85** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:56 pm

The sand at the beach does act like a filter trapping a lot of contaminants from the water due to tidal action so the higher the human traffic on any given beach the higher the chance of pollutants remaining behind in the sand which is why its always been recommended to avoid collecting sand from areas with high foot and boat traffic as these areas will have the highest concentration of pollution.

I know that collecting sand in legal areas where there is low to no human traffic can be beneficial to the crabs but the sand must be collected from the inter-tidal zone which will be the most saturated with calcium from the crushed sea shells as well as other minerals from the water.

Because shore erosion has gotten so bad in certain areas in Fl the effected areas have passed local ordinances preventing the removal of sand in large quantities and Daytona Beach is one of those areas and I know from personal experience I was out on the beach my last day of vacation collecting a small sample of sand to put in a jar with the shells I'd found while walking down the shoreline and one of the Beach Patrol trucks stopped and the driver asked me some questions and let me know that taking enough sand to leave behind a small hole was actually illegal and he asked me not to do so which I wasn't planning on leaving behind a hole anyway.

HCA: Hermit Crab Association